Double Bass Is this weird bow grip really, really bad?

[Neil Pye]

There's one thing that makes me doubt your ability to judge - well, several centuries of experience too, so that's two things - and that is your insistance on using the word "grip". There is no such thing as a bow "grip". Its a hold, and if you insist on carrying on with this Frankenhold, against all the advice, we can't help you. Last words - don,t grip your bow

 

[Silevesq]

Knew I saw something similar somewhere!

 

[Saxophone Phil]

Yep, that's my frankenhold!
He's a better player than me tho.

 

[Neil Pye]

Seriously, just because someone else does it, doesn't mean you should. Please sort it out, it would be bad if you damaged yourself.

 

[lurk]

Of course you can do whatever you want. The bowing in that video might be enough for you. With that hold, though, that's about it. If you want to play faster, louder, longer, with different articulations and attacks, you're screwed. There's also health issues. In general you can often get by with faulty technique for quite a while, but eventually it will bite you in the ass and you'll get hurt. I speak from experience. Injury and inflammation to those little muscles and tendons in hand and wrist can be hard to fix.

 

[damonsmith]

I do not believe in any superiority of bow grips. I do think the German is much easier early on. I don't recommend being self-taught, but, I would recommend teaching yourself French grip even less. Get a teacher and if you won't do that, get a German bow.

 

[Andy Mopley]

View attachment 3123089 Another option for you to consider is the 'hybrid'. It is in between German and French and used by some very accomplished bass players. The hybrid bow is slightly different but the hold is similar to a German hold. It can be done on a French bow until you are sure where you are headed with bows. Here the great David Moore is holding his hybrid bow.


And where is the pinky, curved under the ferrule??

 

[Saxophone Phil]

This is the grip I've been using. The little finger is not used to control the bow (at least as I'm doing it), and I have it in it's 'natural' (slightly curved) position, next to the others. Very comfortable.

 

[the_Ryan]

@Andy Mopley David Allen Moore's bow hold is just his variation on a German bow hold: tip of the pinky goes under the ferrule. There isn't a specific hybrid bow hold as hybrid bows can be held overhand and underhand. As someone with experience playing French, German, and hybrid bows you do have to modify your bow hold slightly going from an underhand hold on a German bow to an underhand hold on a hybrid bow, but that's kind of something that the player has to figure out.

 

[the_Ryan]

This is the grip I've been using. The little finger is not used to control the bow (at least as I'm doing it), and I have it in it's 'natural' (slightly curved) position, next to the others. Very comfortable.

In an underhand bow hold, the pinky goes on the underside of the ferrule. It's main job is stabilization, but if you're taking your weight out of the string the bulk of the bow's weight will be felt on the pinky.

 

[Neil Pye]

The German bow HOLD is nothing like the OP's photograph. Not even close. The hand shape in the OP's photo almost looks like it might have been designed to lock all the digits in place and prevent any mobility in the hand. Please, look again, go to a teacher and get it sorted. Why do people ask for advice and then spend pages defending and justifying their decision to ignore the advice? You're doing great, that GRIP is perfect, you'll be in the NY Phil before you can blink. Every other bass player in the world is wrong about their bow HOLD.

 

[the_Ryan]

The German bow HOLD is nothing like the OP's photograph. Not even close. The hand shape in the OP's photo almost looks like it might have been designed to lock all the digits in place and prevent any mobility in the hand. Please, look again, go to a teacher and get it sorted. Why do people ask for advice and then spend pages defending and justifying their decision to ignore the advice? You're doing great, that GRIP is perfect, you'll be in the NY Phil before you can blink. Every other bass player in the world is wrong about their bow HOLD.

I understand that, I'm not sure if I was misreading the OP's post in response to Andy's. I was unsure if he was trying DAM's "hybrid" (which is just an underhand hold slightly modified because of the frog shape) or was still using the one in the post. I am not trying to defend the "grip" in question and my recommendation would be to see a teacher immediately. There are great players who do weird things with their bow hold (Rinat comes to mind), posture, left hand technique, etc. and sound objectively good; it is our job to realize whether or not someone's technique is what makes them sound good or if they sound good in spite of that.

I agree that the picture in the OP will prevent mobility in the hand: unlike an overhand or underhand bow hold, there is no room for the hand/arm to pivot when transferring weight to the tip which will lead to gripping and pressing as opposed to letting the sound come out of the bass.

 

[Saxophone Phil]

Perhaps I just need to point out, that as I said above, I've been using an approximation of Moore's underhand hold, thanks to good advice from CaseyVancouver.
And, as I said above, I don't believe that my ghetto grip is as bad as some think - but I'm going to leave it for a while until I have some more skill and am in a better position to judge.
So, some of the advice I've had here has been very helpful.

 

[LouisF]

roppelt | German Bow Grips

 

[Saxophone Phil]

Thanks, LouisF - that's a very interesting page!

 

[LouisF]

It just shows how much variety - and how many opinions - there are on the topic.

 

[damonsmith]

While there are a variety of ways to hold the bow, the OP needs to learn correctly hold a bow in the most basic and "normal" way. Advanced ideas about bow holds from an informed position have no place in this discussion.
The primary principals are the least amount of hand contact with the most ability move the bow back and forth with the hands and fingers - this goes for German or French.
A good bow hold is very loose in the hand and the final point of tension is the contact with the string. That grip is getting you nowhere unless you just want to saw away at scales for intonation.

 

[LouisF]

No place?

 

[wathaet]

Damon makes a point that is missing in most discussions here. Start with something very mainstream. From there it is easy to branch out once you get sufficiently advanced.
Even for just intonation work, the OP grip will likely give you a varying pitch along a full bowstroke.

 

[neilG]

It just shows how much variety - and how many opinions - there are on the topic.

To a degree. Some of the grips on that page are, IMO, so fundamentally unsound and un-ergonomic that I consider them beyond the usual variations of German bow holds.