Double Bass Is this weird bow grip really, really bad?

[LouisF]

It's just Robert's page - not mine, ok?

 

[neilG]

It's just Robert's page - not mine, ok?

We saw that.

 

[damonsmith]

No place?

Right, no place. It is a misuse of Opplet's page and research. The responsible thing is to tell the OP to stop immediately and guide them toward something helpful. One important aspect to remember: iconoclastic geniuses don't ask for advice online!
Alternative bow grips should be sought out for advanced techniques far beyond just getting through your first few major scales. 15-20 years down the line when the OP is having difficulty with a combined spiccato/tremolo then it will be a question to ask.
Until then a collective resounding "no" from this forum is the correct response.

 

[LouisF]

My last comment on this: in about 9 of the 11 photos Robert says things like "doesn't work", "too much strain", "no leverage", "painful for the thumb" etc; on the LAST ONE he says this is the one he adopted.

ERGO: he shows that most of these are bad bow holds, don't do them for the reasons quoted. That is IMO good and useful research for some one who takes (a) the time to read the page; and (b) try the holds for him/herself to see WHY IMPROPER HOLDS DON'T WORK.

I'm done. Thanks
Louis

 

[Neil Pye]

All that time and effort to learn what a good teacher could show you in one lesson? Why start on a journey of "discovery" in the full knowledge that the path has been trodden so many times by so many hugely talented, intelligent, thoughtful musicians? Don't tell me why, I don't care. Either take the excellent advice you're given to go to a good teacher, or don't. Waste time you could spend learning to play. Up to you. That's my last word on this, it's now a circular argument

 

[neilG]

^^^^What the other Neil said: Trial and error is the poorest of learning techniques. There is a baseline "correct" for what you seek. It's been correct for a very long time, for a reason.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Uhmm...With great respect, as always, and without wanting to take this discussion in a different place altogether, Neil, allow me to challenge the comment "Trial and error is the poorest of learning techniques". Babies, for example, learning to walk or people learning to ride a push bike don't do it by attending a course “7 steps to be a successful walker or rider”. Learning to hit a note at pitch is training your muscles and ears to a certain action and corresponding sound, often by trial and error (eg adjusting fingers or pressure used). Sure, they can be related to a "baseline" but should it not be human endeavour to always seek new ways of doing things? The art world is full of examples of people achieving great heights through exactly that, trial and error. The good thing in having people like yourself and others (Mr Potts, Neil Pike, LouisF, to name a few) is that your contributions should help to shape the actions of those that take the time to read and appreciate your guidance, therefore maximising our chances to succeed through any process of learning we chose.

 

[SAlcott]

Everyone is of course free to find their own path when learning an instrument. I suppose that someone learning a reed instrument could make a case for shoving the mouthpiece up their nose if they were able to produce a sound that way. If OP really wants to continue on this path, fine with me. Who knows? His bow hold may well revolutionize bass technique as we know it.

 

[Saxophone Phil]

QUOTE: I suppose that someone learning a reed instrument could make a case for shoving the mouthpiece up their nose if they were able to produce a sound that way.
Rahsaan Roland Kirk would be the pioneer of that technique

Note that Opplet's page is a set of things he found by observing closely in photos on album covers and the like when he was a kid (not an advanced practitioner). My guess is that as a kid he was obsessed by everything bass, and tried everything he could. I assume he had a teacher, but that didn't preclude him from trying everything under the sun when he wasn't at his lesson. And because he was driven, he became a good bass player (and thinks for posting the link, Louise!).

In any case - I simply can't afford lessons from a decent teacher. But I can afford to practice for a couple of hours every day, so I'm well past my first few major scales. No doubt it would be more efficient to get lessons, but you make do with what you have. In my case plenty of time, not much cash. I'm using a hybrid German hold on a cheap French bow - and looking to get a German bow when I can afford one. No muscle strain. My tone gets better every day. That's thanks to the good advice in some of the posts above (Thanks!).

Lastly - please remember that I'm not unskilled at music. It's just this wonderful instrument that is new to me.

 

[neilG]

Andy, I appreciate and respect your comments, as always, but I'll stand by my statement about trial and error. None of the examples you give are strictly "trial and error". Babies learn by mimicking, as do musicians learning to play in tune through practice. Basically, acquiring and perfecting skills is not trial and error. And yes, people achieve great things via experimentation, but it's still not the best way to learn anything already established. Frankly, and this is just me on my soap box, I don't know what bassists are looking for that's new all the time.

 

[damonsmith]

QUOTE:
In any case - I simply can't afford lessons from a decent teacher.

I mean, If you can't afford a Skype or Google hangout once a month you can't afford to play double bass. Things have gotten a lot cheaper and more available in that regard. Also, you should value your own time more.

 

[damonsmith]

Trial and error is very dumb way to get information that has been readily available for hundreds of years.
Also dumb is trying to make up "avant garde" ways of playing perfectly normal music. If you want to spend time with "trail and error" at least find us a new sound.