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Is Victor Wooten right about us being underappreciated?

#21
Jake of Bass said:
I read "Is Victor Wooten right..."

YES!


Wow, I've been saying the exact same thing for years, so he must be right! :p
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+1 I've been saying the same thing for years as well, especially about the bass being the essential link between rythmn, chord structure and melody. I see bass as the glue that holds a beautiful thing together.

And you know what! Other advice that Vic gives in his "Groove Workshop" is to listen. I can't think of any band member who has to listen so intently to every other part as the bass player - to the extent that I have often ended up as the guy who does the arrangements and becomes, by default, the 'musical director'. OK, not all bass players want this role, but there are a huge number of famous players who fall into this role as the hub that everybody works around.

Joe Public will never know this, but your fellow band members do
 
#22
I do agree with what Victor is saying.The way I see it you can make good music without for example a guitar, or without keyboards. Take away the bass, and it sounds like sh*t. Very much of the R&B (what does it really stand for? it sure can't be rhythm & blues no more) today lacks bass totally. It sounds really weak imo (probably because of an empty frequency range), even all my friends which do not play the bass or any other instrument totally agree.
 
#23
Dellers said:
I do agree with what Victor is saying.The way I see it you can make good music without for example a guitar, or without keyboards. Take away the bass, and it sounds like sh*t. Very much of the R&B (what does it really stand for? it sure can't be rhythm & blues no more) today lacks bass totally. It sounds really weak imo (probably because of an empty frequency range), even all my friends which do not play the bass or any other instrument totally agree.
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+1, I have friends and relatives who dig that genre, and I just can't stand it. It's not just an empty frequency range -- it's the utter lack of any groove or feeling, and a bloated kick drum and a wailing diva don't exactly make up the difference.

As for the actual question -- of course! Being underappreciated comes with the territory.
 
#24
baalroo said:
No, I disagree. The concept of "underappreciated" is weird and subjective in the first place and really is just some sort of ego-centric concept. I have a hard time understanding how to gauge appreciation in order to properly determine the appropriate amount that should be placed upon the bassist. It's jut music, people like it or they don't. Must we always turn it into a popularity contest? By saying that bass is the "most important" part of a band isn't Vic really passive agressively stating that the other instruments aren't as important?
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No, I don't think he is. I shouldn't speak for everyone but I'd say Vic, and all of us who are serious about music, would never think the other instruments aren't as important. As noted above, the whole is greater than just the sum of the parts.

Nevertheless, I think Vic speaks the truth about bass: it is critically foundational; it creates the groove (drums make the feet move, bass makes the hips move ;); and yes, becasue it is not usually flashy and 'in your face' it is underappreciated by those who don't understand.
 
#25
I don't agree with Vic on the "most important" part (btw, I have read the book and seen the DVD) but I do agree on the under-appreciated. Nobody is more or less important...without the guitarist nothing would hold the attention of the listeners mind while we move their feet, without the drummer we loose a lot of our potency and the bands time suffers, without the vocalist people can't relate as easily to your music, or remember it when the go home...We are another piece in a puzzle, remove any one piece and the picture suffers.

As for the under-appreciated part, I think somewhere a long the course of bass history people started just assuming the bass player wasn't every doing anything worth directly listening too (I blame the 80's). Yeah rooters are doing their jobs and I can't fault them for it, but it seems to rub off negatively on the bass community.
 
#26
You are just appreciated as much as you are. There's no "under" or "over" appreciation, it's a nonsensical concept really. Are bassists seen as being less talented or playing "easier" stuff than other members of the band? Sure. Is that true? Usually, but BIG DEAL. If you want your ego stroked go do what Vic does, if you want to play bass in a more traditional way then stop complaining.

When someone says "I'm underappreciated" it usually translates into "look at me," and considering everything I've heard wooten do I'm pretty sure that's an accurate interpretation in this case.

And yes, saying "bass is most important" does, without a doubt, imply that the other instruments are not as important."Most important" denotes a scale of importance at which bass sits at the top. My question in those regards was meant to be rhetorical due to the obvious answer.
 
#27
I really respect his playing, but he is full of it with that statement. That is a self-promoting statement and he would probably say the same about whatever instrument he played. When you play bass in a band, you (should) do it understanding and accepting your role. If you are in a backup band for a singer where the singer is the featured artist, you need to understand that your role is to provide backing instrumentation to support the songs and her singing. It is he/she who is bringing in the audience while you are playing R-5 or similar patterns. If the singer does not appreciate the work you are putting to support him/her then you should move on to something else (unless you like the paycheck better than the appreciation). On the other hand, in a jazz trio the bassists is a central feature and the audience that goes to that show understands and appreciated it; now you had best have your chops in order when you accept that job.
 
#30
One of my older guitarists made an interesting point. He said a band is like a sandwich, drums were the bread and the lead instruments the meat.

Bass was the mayonnaise. If it's not there, you know something's wrong, but you won't think of it right away.
 
#31
the honorable instrument – of course

understated – most of the time

under-appreciated – most of the time

the most important role – that sounds very egocentric to me; I think we all play important roles and no one is the most important

the link between the harmony and the rhythm – obviously

the foundation of a band – I think I might consider the drums (or percussion) the true foundation of a band

what all the other instruments stand upon – Once again, I think that might go to the drums
 
#32
I've never felt under-appreciated by fellow musicians or my bandmates. In fact, quite the opposite. However, friends and acquaintances basically know me as a guitar player. Allot of them don't know that I've been playing the bass seriously for the last few years and barely pick up a guitar these days. When I bump into someone who I haven't seen in a while, the conversation usually goes like this;

Friend - " So I hear you're playing in a band these days."

Me - " Yep. Having allot of fun with it."

Friend - " Must be exciting getting up in front of a crowd and wailing away at the guitar. "

Me - " Actually, I'm the bass player."

Friend - "Oh :hmm:"
 
#34
Fajah said:
I've never felt under-appreciated by fellow musicians or my bandmates. In fact, quite the opposite. However, friends and acquaintances basically know me as a guitar player. Allot of them don't know that I've been playing the bass seriously for the last few years and barely pick up a guitar these days. When I bump into someone who I haven't seen in a while, the conversation usually goes like this;

Friend - " So I hear you're playing in a band these days."

Me - " Yep. Having allot of fun with it."

Friend - " Must be exciting getting up in front of a crowd and wailing away at the guitar. "

Me - " Actually, I'm the bass player."

Friend - "Oh :hmm:"
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:hmm:
+1
 
#37
Under-appreciated does not necessarily mean to look down on something. It also means 'over-looked' or 'not understood'. In that regard Vic is correct; in non-music circles bass is often over-looked and/or its role and importance not understood.

So, it's not like it's said in a whining way (e.g., wahhh... look at me I'm underappreciated). No one is complaining, it's just a general fact about how the masses hear and appreciate music.
 
#39
Victor is the man and as usual, he is right. Bassists are underappreciated, especially by non-musicians. I get sick of hearing people who are thinking of picking up an instrument say, "I think I'll play bass because it's easy". Bass is as difficult as anything else if you aspire to be good at it. The best sounding bands have strong bassists and moreover have bassists and drummers that have an almost psychic connection.
 
#40
HelloJerk said:
the honorable instrument – of course

understated – most of the time

under-appreciated – most of the time

the most important role – that sounds very egocentric to me; I think we all play important roles and no one is the most important

the link between the harmony and the rhythm – obviously

the foundation of a band – I think I might consider the drums (or percussion) the true foundation of a band

what all the other instruments stand upon – Once again, I think that might go to the drums
Click to expand...

I reckon drums without bass provide a relatively shaky foundation, a truly great rhythm section is almost like 2 guys playing 1 instrument together.
 

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