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Double Bass ischell c1, c2 or c3

#21
bassically_eli said:
Oh right, I forgot you had that. I've see it in your videos. It looks like an awesome amp, but I would really only ever be interested in the preamp or head if they sold it separately. I'm spoiled by a couple of MAS cabs and an Audiokinesis TC112.

I'm not sure that the Headway would work with that combo. It only has one balanced input with 48V. The 1/4" input has something kind of odd like 11V iirc. I'm not sure if either of the Ischell devices will work with that for anyone else interested.
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I believe ( I could be wrong about this so you should check with Fischer Ischell) the microphones will work within a range of voltages so, using the 11 volt power supply for Channel 1 will power the microphone with what it needs as will the 48 volts on Channel 2 of the Headway EDB2 H.E.
 
#22
Ric Vice said:
I believe ( I could be wrong about this so you should check with Fischer Ischell) the microphones will work within a range of voltages so, using the 11 volt power supply for Channel 1 will power the microphone with what it needs as will the 48 volts on Channel 2 of the Headway EDB2 H.E.
Click to expand...

Hello Ric,

I believe you are correct re the voltage. My Genzler amp provides just 12v phantom and all the mics I have tried and use work just fine, including the Ischell C3.

One more idea, The C3 contact mic I bought included the option of powering it with its own 9v battery which comes with a little bag that attaches by the jack behind the tailpiece. With that, and the XLR to 1/4 inch adapter, I can run it into any 1/4 inch amp input and I don't need phantom power.

That said, I really enjoy the features I have with the 'Genzlihur Acoustic Pro'. It has a separate pre-EQ DI for each channel (and also a blended post-EQ DI). With those, I can run either or both mics to FOH.
 
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#23
Yes, if I remember correctly, Double Midi mentioned that the Ischell will "take what it needs" from the phantom provided it's 9 volts or higher. In regards to the 9 volt battery mounted on the tailpiece, my take
is that the tailpiece is part of the acoustic "system" of a Double Bass along with the sound post, bass bar, bridge and table. Anything that dampens that system changes the quality and strength of the sound.
If I could install a height adjuster inside the neck itself, without having to carve on the neck, I'd so that and ditch my adjustable bridge. Just my take though.
 
#24
Ric Vice said:
Yes, if I remember correctly, Double Midi mentioned that the Ischell will "take what it needs" from the phantom provided it's 9 volts or higher. In regards to the 9 volt battery mounted on the tailpiece, my take
is that the tailpiece is part of the acoustic "system" of a Double Bass along with the sound post, bass bar, bridge and table. Anything that dampens that system changes the quality and strength of the sound.
If I could install a height adjuster inside the neck itself, without having to carve on the neck, I'd so that and ditch my adjustable bridge. Just my take though.
Click to expand...

Ischell offers many different options, some of them DO NOT have anything (other than the mic) attached to the bass.
 
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#25
[QUOTE="Ric Vice, post: 26181089, member: 59217" Anything that dampens that system changes the quality and strength of the sound.
[/QUOTE]


While this is true, it may not necessarily be a bad change.

When running through an amp, I have frequently found it beneficial to roll up a towel and wedge it under the tail piece to dampen undesirable low frequency resonances.
 
#26
rickwolff said:
Ischell offers many different options, some of them DO NOT have anything (other than the mic) attached to the bass.
Click to expand...

They certainly do come in a variety of cable options. When I get my Kolstine Busetto Travel Bass back from my luthier (the neck was repaired incorrectly by another party) with it's new neck
I'm going to try the C3.
 
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#27
It's not just the voltage of the phantom power. Some condenser mics don't work with an unbalanced input, so I've learned recently. I bought an AKG C411 PP, which is designed to work with anything from 9 to 52 volts. However, when I tried it with an LR Baggs preamp with an unbalanced connection, I couldn't get any kind of useable signal regardless of how I made the connection from XLR to TS. I emailed AKG, and they confirmed that it needs a balanced connection to work. My Prodipe mic OTH, works well with the LR Baggs and a modified XLR-to-TS adapter. IDK why one works and the other does not, technically speaking, but it seems like something others should be aware of before trying to blend two condenser mics.
 
#28
bassically_eli said:
It's not just the voltage of the phantom power. Some condenser mics don't work with an unbalanced input, so I've learned recently. I bought an AKG C411 PP, which is designed to work with anything from 9 to 52 volts. However, when I tried it with an LR Baggs preamp with an unbalanced connection, I couldn't get any kind of useable signal regardless of how I made the connection from XLR to TS. I emailed AKG, and they confirmed that it needs a balanced connection to work. My Prodipe mic OTH, works well with the LR Baggs and a modified XLR-to-TS adapter. IDK why one works and the other does not, technically speaking, but it seems like something others should be aware of before trying to blend two condenser mics.
Click to expand...
Phantom power only works with a balanced connection because it is on both lines. If you put one to ground it shortens the phantom power.
But the main reason is that unbalanced inputs don‘t deliver phantom power for that reason.

My Oktava MK-012 small diaphragm condenser only put the signal on the hot line of the balanced connection, the inverse is grounded via a capacitor (to avoid the shortening of the phantom power) so effectively the signal transport is unbalanced but the phantom power works because of the additional capacitor that avoids the shortening of the phantom power.
 
#29
The 48 volts phantom power is only needed for condenser mics that need to power the diaphragm of the mic capsule. The higher the voltage, the higher the output voltage of the (ultra-high impedance) mic capsule.

The small electret capsules get a permanent voltage charge during the manufacturing process, so the only need power for the ultra-high impedance preamp following the mic diaphragm. It is usually a JFET only connected directly at the capsule.

The preamp of a „real“ condenser is a bit more complex than that but beyond powering the membrane and delivering a balanced signal (small electret mic capsules with a JFET only deliver an unbalanced signal) it has the same ultra-high impedance buffering function.

The impedance buffer needs much less voltage (typically 1.5 to 12 volts) than the diaphragm power that is designed for 48 volts (but works often with less resulting in a lower output and reduced S/N-ratio. It depends on the circuit design if a lower phantom power also reduces the power for the mic-internal preamp/buffer. But in many cases a mic still works at lower phantom power, but gets quieter and noisier.
If the preamp gets too less power, the signal gets distorted at higher volumes.
 
#31
Rod Sroufe said:
I have a Genzler Magellan 350 BA 10 combo which does not have a mic input. So I ordered the Ischell C3 with the 9v battery option. Wondering if anyone has a feel for the expected run time of the battery in this application? Thanks!!
Click to expand...
I had the Xjack for a few years and do not remember ever changing the battery!
 
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#37
Earl said:
Any updates on how it works for you?
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The C3 has been working very well. Convincingly natural sound at disgustingly loud volumes. The C3 is powered by a Headway EDB-2 through the amp du jour or whatever full range powered speaker the venue has. The C3 retains a certain dynamic feel characteristic of a mic but there's very little bleed (as @rickwolff has demonstrated). With the 320hz cut engaged, I haven't experienced any unruly feedback problems, even when running through big amps playing with loud free jazz or post rock bands. Because it's mounted on the body, the DI sound is a little bit like a stethoscope and leaves something to be desired so I usually bring another mic to send to the front of house. I have to try the C3 through a quality tube DI to see if it would improve things in this regard.
 
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