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Double Bass "It practically prevents upright feedback"

acubass

acubass

Oct 10, 2007
443
57
Columbia, SC
#1
The statement above is taken from the schroeder description of the Mini 12+. I am curious if these cabs were designed to specifically reduce feedback or is it just marketing. Also the Mini 12+ models are different from Musicians friend and the Schroeder website with different dimensions and tweeter placement. Has anyone heard the differences in the two designs? Thanks much for any input.

http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Schroeder-Mini-12-Light-Bass-Cabinet-?sku=484863

and

http://www.schroedercabinets.com/mini12+.htm
 
#3
joeybyron said:
The statement above is taken from the schroeder description of the Mini 12+. I am curious if these cabs were designed to specifically reduce feedback or is it just marketing. Also the Mini 12+ models are different from Musicians friend and the Schroeder website with different dimensions and tweeter placement. Has anyone heard the differences in the two designs? Thanks much for any input.

http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Schroeder-Mini-12-Light-Bass-Cabinet-?sku=484863

and

http://www.schroedercabinets.com/mini12+.htm
Click to expand...
"It practically prevents upright feedback"

I'd love to hear an explanation of how this speaker cab was designed to prevent feedback. Perhaps it was designed to be placed 100 feet away from your bass.
 
#5
The speakers pictured in those two links don't appear to be the same. There seems to be a half baffle over the driver in the Musicians Friend link. I don't know what such a thing does. (Will have to ask guru Bill Fitzmaurice over on the EB forum).

As for a regular ported box, there are five ways that their response can differ from one another at frequencies below a few hundred Hz:

1. Overall sensitivity
2. Cone / box resonance
3. Port / box resonance
4. Total Q factor (height of hump)
5. Effect of coil inductance

Of these parameters, the fourth one could have an effect on feedback at a given volume, as the hump probably lives in the feedback zone of most basses. If Jorg Schroeder has specified a driver that helps him manage the hump, his speaker would probably be less susceptible to feedback. Such a speaker could retain its midrange response (Mantra of electric bassists: Boost the mids in order to cut through). The GK combo is another speaker with an unusual driver designed to manage life in a small box.

Naturally, a response curve would confirm or refute my hypothesis. :D
 
#8
I've heard the same claim from people selling carefully designed foldback wedges.

It makes sense that if some cabs throw certain frequencies in certain directions, to get an average sensitivity that includes a bunch of peaks and troughs, then those peaky frequencies will get pesky more readily than another cab that is more tame and even in response (at the same perceived average volume).

I'm not talking about the port's tuning hump, .... take a look at any mic or cab's frequency response graph and it's not a smooth line. Consider the picture from different angles too ... different lobesand spikes should happen based on the geometry of the cab [it is easier to picture this in radio antennas' polar patterns... I know they're not exactly the same but a lot of the same principles apply].

In short ... I reckon it's possible that some cabs are better than others, based on gut feel and some pseudo-science, but I'm looking forward to the day where a cab maker who makes this claim can tell me exactly what they've done that makes their offering more special than the competition's.
 
#9
Hmm. The baffle makes me wonder if the design is related some how to those Karlson Hi-Fi designs some bassists were using in the 60-70's. Those sound great. Anyway, 20lbs sounds good for the schlep feature.
 
#10
This may be an overly simplistic way of thinking about it, but...

Even if you achieved perfectly flat response with a cabinet (or reduction of the "hump" that fdeck referred to), would that really matter much when it is doubtful that the room you'd be using it in has anything like a flat response?
 
#11
coming from a long line of musicians, playing upright for years in various German Symphony orchestras and having one of the best engineer teams in my company, I can say "yes, the new Mini 12 and 12+" practically eliminate feedback;

furthermore Musiciansfriend is quite a bit slow updating their site with the new Schroeder models, so far it's been 3 months :hmm:

if anyone has specific questions please email me @:
[email protected]

thank you

Jorg
www.schroedercabinets.com
 
#12
JSCHRO7376 said:
coming from a long line of musicians, playing upright for years in various German Symphony orchestras and having one of the best engineer teams in my company, I can say "yes, the new Mini 12 and 12+" practically eliminate feedback;
Click to expand...
That's a strong statement.

You'll of course understand our skepticism especially where Double Bass and Feedback are concerned. It's a very old problem many have claimed to eliminate in their marketing but in the end it's turned out to be BS.

Why is this different?
 
#14
I'm pretty knowledgeable as far as cab design. Curious to hear the science behind it. To my knowledge, the only way a cab could prevent feedback would be to have an active component.
 
#17
Let's not get too worked up about this. I interpret the statement "It practically prevents feedback" to mean that it "almost" or "mostly" or "maybe it will and then again maybe it won't" (prevent feedback). It doesn't say 100% guaranteed or anything like that. I suspect that if feedback was an issue, and one was interested in the product, one could contact Jorg and get the product on trial, with the understanding that it could be returned if it didn't live up to the claim.
 
#19
To my knowledge, any current aspect of speaker design would have little or no affect on feedback. (unless there is an active component which I assume thereis not)I'm not trying to dis the designer. I'd love to know about new technology. It would be cool if it were true. It appears that Mr. Schroeder is a serious guy. It's just that given my level of knowledge, this seems like an erroneous advertising claim.
 

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