Sure he's a violinist, but everything he says here applies to us too. At least, I think so.
http://youtu.be/SodZCoSBIR0
http://youtu.be/SodZCoSBIR0
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Itzhak Perlman on Vibrato
- Thread starter eerbrev
- Start date
One of the greatest musicians EVER in the history if the known universe, but gross generalizations and no demonstrations. It's a video, why doesn't he have a fiddle in his hands? As a teaching presentation, I give this a barely passing grade.
Many thanks for a good find. Vibrato is harder to teach than other many other aspects of technique and the teacher usually needs a recipe book full of ideas and approaches. Then some people can just do it , no problems. Envy! Envy!
I still think that, metaphorically speaking, vibrato is the cream on top of the icing on top of the cake when it comes to building a good sound. Start with a good sound, add dynamics and expressive movements with the bow then finish off with choice of vibrato. I know that this is not the way most of us practice - we try to do everything at once.
To me (1) vibrato should not rob notes of a centre (stray too far off pitch, (2) it should add something positive to how the bow is already shaping and connecting sounds, and (3) should never distract the listener's attention away from the music that it seeks to colour. I would rather hear a good expressive sound with no vibrato than a bad vibrato
Perlman does not talk about the various shapes of vibrato, only speed and width. Recently I found some good examples of bass singers' use of vibrato in Mozart's "Per quest bella mano" on Youtube. The first is Thomas Quasthoff and Levinson with Muti and the NY Phil. The second is Cesare Siepi, with only piano accompaniment. I am particularly impressed by his performance.
Cheers, everyone.
DP
I still think that, metaphorically speaking, vibrato is the cream on top of the icing on top of the cake when it comes to building a good sound. Start with a good sound, add dynamics and expressive movements with the bow then finish off with choice of vibrato. I know that this is not the way most of us practice - we try to do everything at once.
To me (1) vibrato should not rob notes of a centre (stray too far off pitch, (2) it should add something positive to how the bow is already shaping and connecting sounds, and (3) should never distract the listener's attention away from the music that it seeks to colour. I would rather hear a good expressive sound with no vibrato than a bad vibrato
Perlman does not talk about the various shapes of vibrato, only speed and width. Recently I found some good examples of bass singers' use of vibrato in Mozart's "Per quest bella mano" on Youtube. The first is Thomas Quasthoff and Levinson with Muti and the NY Phil. The second is Cesare Siepi, with only piano accompaniment. I am particularly impressed by his performance.
Cheers, everyone.
DP
I sort of agree,but how about this?
What if we say this is the first approximation for the person wanting to learn more about vibrato. Who never even thought about these issues before. Wouldn´t they be apt to approach it thusly "OK , show me quickly so I can copy you"
With no fiddle in his hands we are forced to think it out for ouselves. Maybe if he had played, his vibrato would immediately become "the model". Teachers who create thinking students instead of reproducers is IMHO a good trade off. I wonder if he is aware of this. Plus he probably isn´t allowed to play in any media without representation or compensation...
I understand what you're saying. The problem with little blurbs like this is that the objectives stated are not measurable. Wide. Narrow. Fast. Slow. HOW fast? 5 seconds of playing would have answered the question.
As to copying your teacher: that's precisely what I want my students to do, as far as their talent and physicality allow. Even "thinking" students need examples. Otherwise we could all take lessons by mail. Or Youtube. Which is not to say I've never learned anything from players on Youtube, but they were PLAYING, not just talking.
This is absolute proof that the primary purpose of this websight is the needless critique of fantastic musicians and pedagogues.
The video is simplistic, but at the end of the day, music *should* be simple.
The video is simplistic, but at the end of the day, music *should* be simple.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I appreciate the video because I find it helpful to create schema that enhance understanding before specific methods are demonstrated, and he accomplished that. I am free to experiment with the various permutations, apply them under different circumstances, and discuss his model(s) with my teacher and other bassists.
I once worked with a master woodworker who taught only by example, with virtually no discussion, and I found his method of instruction awkwardly incongruent with my learning style. Everyone is different; what works one person may leave someone else cold. I crave the why and the how, and they don't necessarily have to be served on the same plate.
I once worked with a master woodworker who taught only by example, with virtually no discussion, and I found his method of instruction awkwardly incongruent with my learning style. Everyone is different; what works one person may leave someone else cold. I crave the why and the how, and they don't necessarily have to be served on the same plate.
I have realized that this comment is kind of harsh, and perhaps offensive, but I have left it here in its unedited state.
How fast? How slow? How wide? How narrow? Jeez man, the guy's Itzhak Perlman. How fast/slow/wide/narrow do YOU think it should be? it's all personal taste, and no one can (or should, for that matter) tell you what to think. Examples would have been great, sure, but i think that they would have been gravy: wonderful, but unnecessary to get what he is trying to say across.
eerbrev
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I'm truly sorry that you don't think MY opinion is as valid as those of others. One would assume that a forum of this kind is for expressing those opinions AND criticisms. I didn't call Mr. Perlman any rude names, nor did I disparage he talent. In fact, I called him "One of the greatest musicians EVER in the history if the known universe".
My criticism is of the video as a useful teaching moment. It is my OPINION that it falls short of ultimate usefulness. As a professional teacher myself, I would not make a video like that and expect many people to get all that much out of it. If YOU did, I'm very happy for you and respect YOUR opinion.
My criticism is of the video as a useful teaching moment. It is my OPINION that it falls short of ultimate usefulness. As a professional teacher myself, I would not make a video like that and expect many people to get all that much out of it. If YOU did, I'm very happy for you and respect YOUR opinion.
When I hear Itzhak Perlman play, it reminds me why I love music.
He is simply the best.
Vibrato is an interesting topic with many accomplished players having strong opposite opinions.
There is a solo concert cellist who despises the constant use of vibrato in an orchestra.
Orin O’Brien feels classical pizz should not have any vibrato, yet I have had conductors ask for a big beautiful vibrato on pizz sections. Joel Quarrington says pizz should only go flat from the in tune note, going below only. My instructor said he did not agree. When Joel talked about his opinion on vibrato with a friend, who was a former student of Heifetz, his friend said ‘but of course’ as if everyone obviously knew this.
Most agree that vibrato is an arm generated movement, there is no hand vibrato on bass. Low notes have a slow vibrato. My conductor has mentioned slow vibrato on a low note can make the note sound out of tune. High or intense notes should have fast vibrato.
Tully Potter, a knowledgeable music critic and long time writer for the Strad, has some huge opinions on vibrato. Actually, his opinions break me up:
https://www.thestrad.com/playing-and-teaching/why-cant-players-get-vibrato-right/6587.article
I found this article by cellist Paul Perley on vibrato interesting:
The Cellist #3 - CD Quality Vibrato — Paul Perley Cellos - Instrument Restoration/Repair/Instruction
Here is another useful article:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Back to Perlman.
Here is Itzhak Perlman giving us some fantastic hands on examples of his vibrato, and what it can do for a phrase.
Wow. So beautiful.
He is simply the best.
Vibrato is an interesting topic with many accomplished players having strong opposite opinions.
There is a solo concert cellist who despises the constant use of vibrato in an orchestra.
Orin O’Brien feels classical pizz should not have any vibrato, yet I have had conductors ask for a big beautiful vibrato on pizz sections. Joel Quarrington says pizz should only go flat from the in tune note, going below only. My instructor said he did not agree. When Joel talked about his opinion on vibrato with a friend, who was a former student of Heifetz, his friend said ‘but of course’ as if everyone obviously knew this.
Most agree that vibrato is an arm generated movement, there is no hand vibrato on bass. Low notes have a slow vibrato. My conductor has mentioned slow vibrato on a low note can make the note sound out of tune. High or intense notes should have fast vibrato.
Tully Potter, a knowledgeable music critic and long time writer for the Strad, has some huge opinions on vibrato. Actually, his opinions break me up:
https://www.thestrad.com/playing-and-teaching/why-cant-players-get-vibrato-right/6587.article
I found this article by cellist Paul Perley on vibrato interesting:
The Cellist #3 - CD Quality Vibrato — Paul Perley Cellos - Instrument Restoration/Repair/Instruction
Here is another useful article:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Back to Perlman.
Here is Itzhak Perlman giving us some fantastic hands on examples of his vibrato, and what it can do for a phrase.
Wow. So beautiful.
Last edited:
