Jaco clip causing some controversy

[thepontif]

This is Talk Bass; anything and everything is arguable.

Well, some things are really not really arguable, but some people just don't realize it.

 

[Lee Moses]

At TalkBass, we can even argue about what is arguable!

 

[thepontif]

I am well aware.

 

[Roy Vogt]

As original poster I was amazed and a bit frightened when I noticed after a few days' absence from TB, that there was such a many-sided conversation going on and quite civilized one.
The talk has spread out into various paths nearly all of them giving some extra information on the complex Jaco case, at least to me. Yes, I know that there must be some 300 Jaco threads on TB already .

I admit being rather boring, for I'd love to get back in the original subject of whether Jaco's playing destroys the song or raises it to the higher levels. I tried to find other versions of DCDM on tube and came up with these ones.

This performance is done quite mainstreamlike with nice round bass tone.

 

[PortlandBass77]

I agree with the first one

 

[Kaa]

Just a quick request for clarification: how do I rate as a "hater", or someone who "doesn't get it", if a performance doesn't appeal to me?

I do hate it when someone tells me I "don't get it", though.

 

[pnchad]

Maybe you don't

It's okay

 

[jaabberwocky]

I would say he overplayed a little towards the end, but it was still highly musical. He did step on the soloists' toes quite a fair bit though.

 

[Gluvhand]

Just a quick request for clarification: how do I rate as a "hater", or someone who "doesn't get it", if a performance doesn't appeal to me?

I do hate it when someone tells me I "don't get it", though.

I'm with you on this but we're fighting a losing battle. Apparently it's not ok to just not like this performance or Jaco. We HAVE TO and if we don't it's because of some limitation or lack of training, knowledge or required reverence. I'd rather not "get it" than come across as an elitist snob that feels it's ok to be condescending to everyone and everything except the memory of their man crush.

 

[JimK]

I have a Downbeat mag from that era (Sept. '79)...there is a picture of Joni, Jaco, Alias (congas), Herbie Hancock, & Tony Williams playing on-stage (could not see if there was a guitar/sax). Different than the Shadows & Light tour/album/video.
Looking at the liner notes for Mingus…Erskine is the drummer, Alias is on congas, Hancock on piano, & Shorter on sax.

Also listed-
Eddie Gomez
John Guerin
Phil Woods
Gerry Milligan
Danny Richmond
Tony Williams
John McLaughlin
Jan Hammer
Stanley Clarke
…the "experimental" tracks these guys played on have not seen the light of day?

Both of those performances are very nice, but of course in tribute to the original recording. At this point it might be useful to listen to the original studio recording to see what the intention was:
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If I'm not mistaken, that's Wayne Shorter on sax. It sure sounds like him.

Shorter plays sax on the studio album, Mingus...
I would say the vibe is a funky Blues; the live version w/ Brecker & Alias does veer a bit off into free-ville. Also, intended, IMO.

 

[Lee Moses]

Just a quick request for clarification: how do I rate as a "hater", or someone who "doesn't get it", if a performance doesn't appeal to me?

I do hate it when someone tells me I "don't get it", though.

It's cool. I get Jaco. At least most of the time. But there's a lot of stuff out there that I don't get.

 

[pnchad]

What's up with the victim sh&t?

I think even the most versed would say that that specific video is uneven at best - especially recording wise

But I said it way back - it's a one-off performance

Sadly your comment speaks for itself

I'm with you on this but we're fighting a losing battle. Apparently it's not ok to just not like this performance or Jaco. We HAVE TO and if we don't it's because of some limitation or lack of training, knowledge or required reverence. I'd rather not "get it" than come across as an elitist snob that feels it's ok to be condescending to everyone and everything except the memory of their man crush.

 

[metalhead398]

I think the problem is just that Jaco was too loud. That's right folks, I'm saying the bass should have been quieter. But seriously, you could hardly even hear the sax over the bass, and Toni was hard to hear as well. The line itself is beautiful, but just too loud.

 

[David Jayne]

I think the problem is just that Jaco was too loud. .

Agree.

 

[OldDirtyBassist]

Jaco is telling just as much of the story as Joni, here.

 

[PahaPeikko]

Both of those performances are very nice, but of course in tribute to the original recording. At this point it might be useful to listen to the original studio recording to see what the intention was:
Invalid Link Removed
If I'm not mistaken, that's Wayne Shorter on sax. It sure sounds like him.
Here was the then current review in Rolling Stone:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/mingus-19790906
And the Down Beat review:
Invalid Link Removed

Thanks Ron for your links.

I also dug up some old Down Beat mags. On August 12, 1976 there is a review of Jaco's solo album (four stars). Especially his compositional and unique voicing talents are praised, but Donna Lee and Portait of Tracy are considered more as technical showiness.
Less than a year later (Jan. 27, 1977) Jaco is on the cover of the DB. In that issue there is story of 'Florida Flash' as there is story about the future of bass with the opinions of 18 great bassits, Jaco included. Jaco is the only one of them who has decided to play only the 'fretless electric bass guitar'.
On the editorial page Charles Suber pronounces that Jaco is on the way to greatness, because of his musical memory, unusual writing talent, technical facility and a large ego.

The old review of Bright Size Life (aloof, soporific, three stars) led me to Ian Hunter's All American Alien Boy record where Jaco is more of a sideman and plays quite supportively.
I wonder a bit why this record is usually not mentioned in Jaco discussions. Too non-unexeptional?

 

[JimK]

Thanks Ron for your links.

One day, I typed that out (maybe in 2013)...it's somewhere in one of TB's 1000 Jaco-this/that threads.

 

[JimK]

...led me to Ian Hunter's All American Alien Boy record where Jaco is more of a sideman and plays quite supportively.
I wonder a bit why this record is usually not mentioned in Jaco discussions. Too non-unexeptional?

Big Jaco fan...but I never really dug that album.
Little Beaver's Party Down? "I Can Dig It, Baby"? That's a different story.

 

[joe vegas]

yeah, that Little Beaver tune is cool. it's featured briefly in part 1 of the 4-part Jaco doc
that's been up on youtube for awhile-

"i can dig it, baby" starts at 19:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTcbTg8O548

 

[jerry]

The old review of Bright Size Life (aloof, soporific, three stars) led me to Ian Hunter's All American Alien Boy record where Jaco is more of a sideman and plays quite supportively.
I wonder a bit why this record is usually not mentioned in Jaco discussions. Too non-unexeptional?

I bought that album when it came out, I was a huge Mott The Hoople fan as a kid. It also came out around the same time as his debut album, I dug it!