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Jaco clip causing some controversy

#503
Tampabass said:
Krabapple is right. I wonder how many of those whining about Jaco's tone and "overplaying" on this track have actually bothered listening to Joni's great "Mingus" album?
Click to expand...

I wasn't asked to (ie, that's not what the OP wanted). Why is it a virtual felony to say that one does not care for Jaco's style or tone? Freekin' bass Nazis ... if I don't think the way "they" do, I must be wrong ... :rollno:
 
#504
Who says it's a "crime to not care for Jaco's style or tone"?
Just saying the constant whining about one of the world's greatest bass players grows tiresome. Particularly as it often comes from those who've spent very little time listening to his music. Not saying that's the case with you, but it is for many of the complainers.
Why not whine about, you know, the sucky players?
 
#505
This is an interesting clip. Someone has apparently been able to isolate the track for "Domingo" from the Birthday Concert CD. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvkggttI314&feature=youtu.be
Trivia: Jaco brought this chart in to Concert Jazz Band at The University of Miami (Coral Gables, not Ohio) when I was in the bass chair to check it with the horns, etc. He ended up sitting in on drums, while I tried to do anything to avoid sounding like him (Jaco clones really bugged him). IIRC I attempted some Fernando Saunders style slap on this one!:help:
 
#507
Tampabass said:
Just saying the constant whining about one of the world's greatest bass players grows tiresome. Particularly as it often comes from those who've spent very little time listening to his music. Not saying that's the case with you, but it is for many of the complainers.
Click to expand...

Through the years, a lot of the non-fans will say they have heard his stuff...when pressed, they will say most of the "Live in NYC" discs or some other late period boot. Then I would agree...yeah, most of that late period stuff is substandard. In fact, I personally find those to be depressing.
Anyway-
Maybe I'm in the minority...but when a Big Band is led by an electric bassist (the only electric instrument in the band) with no chording instrument, per se...it's a big deal. He is driving those bands...

About Jaco's tone-
I am assuming most are saying they do not like his Bridge pickup/hard-plucking back by the Bridge tone? Many Funk bands back then wanted that vibe.
Back then, how many guys were trading in their P-basses for Jazz...or adding a Bridge PUP to their P? Guilty, here, as charged.
Jaco's other tone was a lighter touch up near the heel of the neck...is this also not liked?
 
#510
I've been looking through some earlier Jaco threads and the "Jaco on Donna Lee. Is it improvised or not?" is very informative. I also realized what a great effort Roy Vogt has made to shed some light on this 'getting Jaco' issue.
On that thread Roy gives a link to Rick Suchow's page where there is a mix of Jaco's playing with the Charlie Parker quintet, then soloing over the rhythm section.
Mind opening presentation.

http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html

But the most me striking fact on that page was this quote from Marcus Miller:

"I'll never forget when, just for kicks, I decided to walk the changes to "Donna Lee" on my bass while Jaco's version was playing. This was probably a year into listening to Jaco's album and I had finally learned "Donna Lee" at school. I was still assuming that, once Jaco stated Charlie Parker's melody, he pretty much was playing any ol' thing that he wanted and that it had nothing to do with the changes. Well I'm walking the changes under Jaco's melody and continue the changes under Jaco's 'crazy solo' and of course realize that it's not crazy at all! I realize that he's playing the changes -- and not just playing them. He was creating harmonies and lines that were so amazing it was sick! My appreciation of him grew so much that afternoon."

If Marcus Miller with his above average ears couldn't get it within a year, so it is understandable that my kind of deep in the pocket sitting funkified syncopators don't always get it, but they should appreciate Jaco's harmonic ingenuity.

I'd like to refer to the statement of second commenter of the original clip in which he is annoyed at the killing of the tritone substitution (which sounded weird to me, too) or is Jaco's playing only so far away of the norm that it seems to conflict mainstream musical rules.

As a matter of fact I played the clip to a layman and he commented it saying that it sounded like the bassist was playing totally different song.
Is Jaco more a musician's musician? On jazz forums many non-bassists seem to appreciate him.
 
#511
and in a clearer way - several of us have tried (less successfully)

much of the criticism comes from less developed ears - we have lived through 30 yrs of, (what I would call), simplistic musical experience and exposure

when I was coming up and studying most young musicians had been exposed to and certainly were aware of jazz and much more sophisticated harmonies, melodies and rhythm - we searched them out

today (unless you're a music major) there's no mainstream reference to advanced forms - I've been crass in calling this a 'dumbing down' - but with many of the comments, I rest my case

evidently musical appreciation is like a muscle - use it or lose it

PahaPeikko said:
I've been looking through some earlier Jaco threads and the "Jaco on Donna Lee. Is it improvised or not?" is very informative. I also realized what a great effort Roy Vogt has made to shed some light on this 'getting Jaco' issue.
On that thread Roy gives a link to Rick Suchow's page where there is a mix of Jaco's playing with the Charlie Parker quintet, then soloing over the rhythm section.
Mind opening presentation.

http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html

But the most me striking fact on that page was this quote from Marcus Miller:

"I'll never forget when, just for kicks, I decided to walk the changes to "Donna Lee" on my bass while Jaco's version was playing. This was probably a year into listening to Jaco's album and I had finally learned "Donna Lee" at school. I was still assuming that, once Jaco stated Charlie Parker's melody, he pretty much was playing any ol' thing that he wanted and that it had nothing to do with the changes. Well I'm walking the changes under Jaco's melody and continue the changes under Jaco's 'crazy solo' and of course realize that it's not crazy at all! I realize that he's playing the changes -- and not just playing them. He was creating harmonies and lines that were so amazing it was sick! My appreciation of him grew so much that afternoon."

If Marcus Miller with his above average ears couldn't get it within a year, so it is understandable that my kind of deep in the pocket sitting funkified syncopators don't always get it, but they should appreciate Jaco's harmonic ingenuity.

I'd like to refer to the statement of second commenter of the original clip in which he is annoyed at the killing of the tritone substitution (which sounded weird to me, too) or is Jaco's playing only so far away of the norm that it seems to conflict mainstream musical rules.

As a matter of fact I played the clip to a layman and he commented it saying that it sounded like the bassist was playing totally different song.
Is Jaco more a musician's musician? On jazz forums many non-bassists seem to appreciate him.
Click to expand...
 
#515
pnchad said:
and in a clearer way - several of us have tried (less successfully)

much of the criticism comes from less developed ears - we have lived through 30 yrs of, (what I would call), simplistic musical experience and exposure

when I was coming up and studying most young musicians had been exposed to and certainly were aware of jazz and much more sophisticated harmonies, melodies and rhythm - we searched them out

today (unless you're a music major) there's no mainstream reference to advanced forms - I've been crass in calling this a 'dumbing down' - but with many of the comments, I rest my case

evidently musical appreciation is like a muscle - use it or lose it
Click to expand...
Bravo!
Too many times here, I have read "...I know what I like & I am going to listen to what I like. Why should I waste my time on music I don't like"?
I know it took 20-25 years before I liked Bitches Brew, late period Coltrane, Sun Ra...hell, even some of Beefheart/Zappa's more "out" stuff.
Some things take effort from the listener...but some would argue that it shouldn't. Too bad.
 
#519
I personally can't imagine anybody who's into bass disliking Jaco. I may sound abrupt but he is like a common ground between myself and other bass players. :) once I was chatting with someone on a boat trip and figured out that we were both bass players and it turned out that he new nothing about Jaco. Telling me to listen to the bass player from U2, I simply lost interest instantly! Different level, different bass world altogether. Better talking about fishing! I don't expect newbies with 0-3 years experience to know Jaco and often recommend albums to students. Some come back saying wicked! Some saying oh it's not my cup of tea! Fair enough. But for a seasoned to say Jaco who? It's like I recently found out that I'm in a band with a piano player who never heard of Duke!
 

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