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Jaco-Good Jazz Musician
- Thread starter jmcdan3
- Start date
i really dont find this important to protect his integrity... hes done enough for music as it is..
RESPECT people
RESPECT people
I'm not surprised - it happens every month regular as clockwork on TalkBass!!! :scowl:
It must have happened hundreds of times by now - we get somebody who doesn't get Jaco or doesn't see why he was so good etc. etc. ad nauseam!!
Mark Wilson
Supporting Member
I was talking to Mike Stern the other day, who was one of Jaco's best friends in his days at the 55bar in NY. Stern said Jaco was one of the few electric bassists that he's met that could REALLY swing.
As far as his improvising skills?!
Listen to...
Donna Lee - Jaco Pastorius
Dry Cleaner From Des Moines - Joni Mitchell (Mingus.) (This boy can RIP the blues!)
ANYTHING off Mingus for that fact.
Also, have you ever heard the Mr. Gone intro to "Punk Jazz" or Jaco's solo on "Port of Entry"
That is some heavy **** man!
As far as his improvising skills?!
Listen to...
Donna Lee - Jaco Pastorius
Dry Cleaner From Des Moines - Joni Mitchell (Mingus.) (This boy can RIP the blues!)
ANYTHING off Mingus for that fact.
Also, have you ever heard the Mr. Gone intro to "Punk Jazz" or Jaco's solo on "Port of Entry"
That is some heavy **** man!
And for some stupid reason we both get sucked into it every time
I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that doesn't see Jaco as a very competent jazz musician, regardless of the fact if you like his bass playing or not.
What this tells me is that those people have been to lazy to educate themselves on his approach and accomplishments.
michael jordan, babe ruth, walter payton, wayne gretzky, brett farve and tiger wood all suck too huh.
there is a difference in not being tuned into a specific style of music, or a sport for that matter, but you have got to recognize an individuals talents and contributions to their calling.
ymmv
there is a difference in not being tuned into a specific style of music, or a sport for that matter, but you have got to recognize an individuals talents and contributions to their calling.
ymmv
I guess this is...humour?
Miroslav Vitous was a 'co-founder' of Weather Report, that makes him "1st choice" by default.
By the time Jaco entered the picture, WR was an "electric" Jazz band...and IIRC, Mingus, at this time, was not actually able to play the bass (poor health).
Check out some Mingus albums from this time frame-George Mraz, Mike Richmond, etc. are in the bass chair.
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Man, I still remember where I was the first time I heard I SING THE BODY ELECTRIC. That SIRIUSLY moved me into some different headspace!
Did you have Joe Zawinul's first solo record, the one with IN A SILENT WAY on it? The fusion band I was with back in the 70s used Z's "arrangement" of his tune, with the Miles "interlude" from the Miles IN A SILENT WAY recording (with that great Mike Henderson bass ostinato)...ah memories.
Anyway, Here's a nice little reminiscence about Jaco by my buddy Jon Raney that you might find interesting.
IIRC, mine was Herbie's Sextant.
I think so...the one called Zawinul?
As far as album art goes, Jaco's debut album & this one are coming out of the same bag.
Anyway, thanks for the reminder, Ed. I need to revisit some early Fusion stuff.
Oh, man, here we go...
Those are heavy, heavy. And awesome. But the prevailing opinion of the guys who hung with Jaco at the time is that those solos, and many of his other standouts (Havona) were pre-composed, not improvised. IMO, it's reasonable to think that he may have played them a little differently night to night, but if Marcus and Berlin are right, Jaco had pre-composed the primary ideas in most of his solos.
Where these threads always turn sideways is that people seem to think that this fact, if true, suggests that Jaco was any less profound as a player. That's not the point to be made (IMO anyway).
The point is that the fact that Jaco's awesome solos were pre-composed versus improvised, again, if true, is a counterintuitive data point to most people.
By the way, while we're on this - what an excellent composer Jaco was!
- Dec 21, 2007
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If you knew you were going to need a solo in a particular tune wouldn't you work out a "skeleton" solo in advance? What's new or odd about that??? It doesn't take anything away from the player or the solo.
Nothing new about it, it most certainly does not remove from the player's credibility IMO. But it does not fit with the definition of "improvisation" as applied in straight ahead jazz.
T-MOST, my next statement is rhetorical, not directed at you. Here is the point where people will start contesting the meaning of the term "improvise" so that they can reconcile that with their views of Jaco as a musician. It happens like this every time...
I would suggest that any player who improvises a solo has some idea of what they want to play. We've all heard solos by people that had no composition to them at all, just blowing over changes. If the end result is serving the song, and there aren't many who doubt whether or not Jaco's solos are fluid and beautiful, who cares when he came up with them? Also, just because he chose a more compositional approach to his soloing doesn't mean necessarily that he was a poor improviser. Everyone could see towards the end of his career that he was really blossoming as a composer, maybe his approach to his solos was part of that? In the end, all you get to judge an artist by is the final product. If someone uses horrible technique to make beautiful music, who cares? Its the music that counts.
