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Jaco-Good Jazz Musician

#41
bassjus said:
If we are going to get into the fact that he "pre-composed" his solos, I'd like to point out the many Coltrane songs that I have plenty of takes of where he plays a lot of the same patterns in the solos. Are you saying Coltrane can't improvise either?
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Not at all. I would say that there is a line out there somewhere...having licks that you tend to stick in to a lot of your choruses is on one side of it, having a pre-defined melodic structure to a solo that you follow more or less each time you play that solo is on the other side of it.

I agree with you about Trane - I also hear the same lick in every Mike Stern solo I've ever listened to, sometimes many times in the same solo - but what seems to be happening in both cases is that the guys are throwing those licks in at the precise instant they think about doing it, not because they knew just when they would do it hours before.
 
#42
WJGreer said:
Not at all. I would say that there is a line out there somewhere...having licks that you tend to stick in to a lot of your choruses is on one side of it, having a pre-defined melodic structure to a solo that you follow more or less each time you play that solo is on the other side of it.

I agree with you about Trane - I also hear the same lick in every Mike Stern solo I've ever listened to, sometimes many times in the same solo - but what seems to be happening in both cases is that the guys are throwing those licks in at the precise instant they think about doing it, not because they knew just when they would do it hours before.
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Just some dinner trivia, but there's a theorist out there (The name escapes me) but if you give him any of the classical masters (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart...) he could take one of their pieces and prove that it was based on only 3 notes.
 
#43
Mark Wilson said:
Just some dinner trivia, but there's a theorist out there (The name escapes me) but if you give him any of the classical masters (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart...) he could take one of their pieces and prove that it was based on only 3 notes.
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I remember one of my music history teachers saying to listen for the "three blind mice" in the work of quite a few composers we were looking at. That pattern gets repeated over and over again in quite a few places...but you know what? It's usually there for a reason.

Jaco was one of those people who could really do whatever he wanted musically. He's legendary for a reason, and all you have to do is listen to some of his stuff to figure out why. You can say some people have better chops, and you can say some people have more skills with this or that...but he's still the legend because of what he did and how.
 
#44
Ezbass said:
Ooh the thorny Jaco issue. For me he doesn't float my boat, but that's just MY opinion and taste. Unfortunately most bassists revere Jaco in the same way that guitarists revere Hendrix and way too many column inshes are dedicated to them in the respective bass and guitar mags. I reckon get over it, they're dead, move on and find out who is causing a ruckus on their instrument today, you never know it could be you. :bassist:
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Don't read the columns then! :rollno:
 
#45
tkozal said:
Did Jaco know all the songs in the standard rep? Did he know all the real book tunes, in all keys (well, really the horn keys) Did he play double bass?

Sorry, he's not a jazz player...

Now I don't think this, but I have met many polyester pants wearing jazzbos (not bass players, usually) who think this way...I usually walk away speechless (there are some like this over on the "other side" here.)
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Me too. Jazzbos (not jazz players) are often the biggest walking hemorrhoids on the planet. Jazz players are inclusive, and they welcome advancement and moving beyond the current status quo. Jazzbos want everyone to sound like it's 1940 again and are quick to point out what is and what isn't jazz. Meanwhile the forward thinking jazz players are the ones getting to record and tour while the jazzbos play standards for $50 a man at their local Italian restaurant.
 
#46
JimmyM said:
Me too. Jazzbos (not jazz players) are often the biggest walking hemorrhoids on the planet. Jazz players are inclusive, and they welcome advancement and moving beyond the current status quo. Jazzbos want everyone to sound like it's 1940 again and are quick to point out what is and what isn't jazz. Meanwhile the forward thinking jazz players are the ones getting to record and tour while the jazzbos play standards for $50 a man at their local Italian restaurant.
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:D
 
#49
Me too. Jazzbos (not jazz players) are often the biggest walking hemorrhoids on the planet. Jazz players are inclusive, and they welcome advancement and moving beyond the current status quo. Jazzbos want everyone to sound like it's 1940 again and are quick to point out what is and what isn't jazz. Meanwhile the forward thinking jazz players are the ones getting to record and tour while the jazzbos play standards for $50 a man at their local Italian restaurant.
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(Now lets queue the Keith Jarrett, Wynton Marsalis discussion group.)
 
#51
tkozal said:
Did Jaco know all the songs in the standard rep? Did he know all the real book tunes, in all keys (well, really the horn keys) Did he play double bass?

Sorry, he's not a jazz player...
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Go get (or borrow) "Portrait of Jaco - the early years" and "Standards Zone" Brian Melvin Trio (and the previously mentioned Joni Mitchell tracks...CASE CLOSED!) :cool:
 
#53
Walking Circles?
I don't know about all that. I know Jaco's I shot the Sheriff improvs weren't amazing but it wasn't that bad. Hm... Mingus and Chambers also did lesson over the top stuff. I'm sure if I'm sure if Jaco never played anything faster than an 8th note he could do sound even more amazing. But Jaco wasn't about doing what ever else did. He was about taking the instrument to another level. I don't think it was intentional I think it was in his nature. I do think Chambers and Mingus' were more musical, but Jaco's were still more genius and progressive. It depends what you like.
 
#55
AlphaMale said:
Walking Circles?
I don't know about all that. I know Jaco's I shot the Sheriff improvs weren't amazing but it wasn't that bad. Hm... Mingus and Chambers also did lesson over the top stuff. I'm sure if I'm sure if Jaco never played anything faster than an 8th note he could do sound even more amazing. But Jaco wasn't about doing what ever else did. He was about taking the instrument to another level. I don't think it was intentional I think it was in his nature. I do think Chambers and Mingus' were more musical, but Jaco's were still more genius and progressive. It depends what you like.
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Sorry, but I don't get this post. :confused:
 
#56
I've checked out quite a few of the Jaco utube vids and, in terms of improv, like this one from '78 about the best. To me, he was at his peek in the 70's and was burned out in the 80's by the time that instructional video was released. It's still a good video, but the guy was basically homeless at the time and had gone through alcohol and other drugs like you wouldn't believe...

 
#57
JimmyM said:
Me too. Jazzbos (not jazz players) are often the biggest walking hemorrhoids on the planet. Jazz players are inclusive, and they welcome advancement and moving beyond the current status quo. Jazzbos want everyone to sound like it's 1940 again and are quick to point out what is and what isn't jazz. Meanwhile the forward thinking jazz players are the ones getting to record and tour while the jazzbos play standards for $50 a man at their local Italian restaurant.
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I havent seen Wynton Marsalis playing at any italian restaurants lately??

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!
 
#58
This thread has certainly been a humorous treat.

I can't get the image of Mingus in white pants out of my head :)

I think Jaco, and the rest of WR, said it best:

"we always solo, and we never solo"

/rick
 
#59
cnltb said:
Sorry, but I don't get this post. :confused:
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Basically Chambers and Mingus were more musical, but they also played music easier than Jaco's. Jaco's Improvised music was a lot more progressive and faster, notes divided into smaller fractions, and which gives you less time to think. Plus they mostly walked especially Chambers. Jaco pushed the envelope with his playing. I'm sure Mingus did, and Chambers did. And I do agree that Mingus is more musical improvising than Jaco. Jaco's music was more faster paced even at slower tempos. But I dunno I do think that most of Mingus' improvised music is more beautiful than Jaco's, but Jaco did push himself to the musical limit as far as a musician and as a bassist. I think Mingus pushed himself for the music.
 
#60
AlphaMale said:
Basically Chambers and Mingus were more musical, but they also played music easier than Jaco's. Jaco's Improvised music was a lot more progressive and faster, notes divided into smaller fractions, and which gives you less time to think. Plus they mostly walked especially Chambers. Jaco pushed the envelope with his playing. I'm sure Mingus did, and Chambers did. And I do agree that Mingus is more musical improvising than Jaco. Jaco's music was more faster paced even at slower tempos. But I dunno I do think that most of Mingus' improvised music is more beautiful than Jaco's, but Jaco did push himself to the musical limit as far as a musician and as a bassist. I think Mingus pushed himself for the music.
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I think you need to learn how to have a complete thought.
 

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