Jad Freer Sisma Mega Thread.

[Andrea Lo]

I am too young to know that serie of amp.
It was something special at the time ?

you can learn a lot about MESA discontinued products here:
MESA/Boogie®
Everything was kind of special, playing loudly with a 400+ or a TitanV12 is an experience.
I'm sure you can surf Talkbass for lots of info and reviews.

 

[agedhorse]

Ok, as a professional bass player, that is my job a bass player. I really don't care about technical stuff, because I don't understand it.

But, I understand how I feel about amps. For past 10-20 years since the dawn of these D-class amps... they all were the same, just a different EQ, different volume to gain ratio, it was great because now we can fit small amp into our pocket and go for gig.
I was into digital amps, I loved it. But in time I realised they are all the same, ICE or Pascal module, some kind of EQ, a DI, basically nothing changed.

But have to say when I heard Sisma, that thing blow me away... I don't care if it's D class, G class, is someone is right or wrong about something... This amp is the first amp in 20 yours that you can play with input gain to at that Ampeg growl, non of other amps have that.
I have a friend that never got into digital amps because le love his tube amps, and he tried them.... But after he got Sisma, he retired his tube amps, that is how great they sound.

So, no one here can't talk about experience based on technical sheet, because you haven't tried it. I have tried it and I'm telling you it's a different kind of amp, what ever you say.

I don't endorse anyone, I have nothing to do with Jad Freer, I'm just happy that someone pushed the boundaries and changed something.
Same what Alex from Barefaced did, we are lucky to have those guys.

And I hate when they end like Merlin Amp, or EA amps... good product is a good product, but sometimes not for masses.

There’s no problem with your choice of an amp, or your opinions, preferences in what you play. Just like there is no problem with those who prefer class D amps because they work better or sound better for their needs. That’s the wonderful thing about opinions, different opinions can occur simultaneously.

That’s different than saying an amp sounds better or worse BECAUSE of its particular class, no different than claiming that a car is faster because it’s red, or larger displacement engines are always more powerful. These can easily be disproved. Saying that all class D amps “sound the same” or “are the same” because they use the same power amp is also easily disproved, no different than saying all class G amps are the same.

 

[Franz975]

you can learn a lot about MESA discontinued products here:
MESA/Boogie®
Everything was kind of special, playing loudly with a 400+ or a TitanV12 is an experience.
I'm sure you can surf Talkbass for lots of info and reviews.

Super interesting.

Would it be a nice choice to make a bigger amp like the Titan V12 or those Carbine these days ?

I just notice that the Sisma is kind of narrow but deep, is that a more efficient way of making an amp ? Because most amps I see are wide and shorter from front to back (about the size, physical shape)
Is that because it fit better the homemade power amp + cooling system maybe ?

 

[agedhorse]

Super interesting.

Would it be a nice choice to make a bigger amp like the Titan V12 or those Carbine these days ?

Not going to happen because the underlying semiconductor technology behind the lateral MOSFETs is being phased out. They have been "end of lifed" at the wafer level. Besides, these amps targeted a very small number of players that wanted the feature set and tone profile (very aggressive, with overdrive as a native voicing) at a time when some music (very hard rock and metal) was looking for this type of tone. IF we were to do an amp like this today, it would be staggeringly expensive (if we could even get the parts).

Packaging is very much the choice of the designer, what fits their technology and their customer's needs.

 

[DELACIUS]

You are a hard nut....

So here explanation. You have Ampeg SVT and Bassman they are completely different, that's why for example Origin effects make pedals of their character. Now Imagine this with Markbass, GRbass and Gallien and Kruger, doesn't make any sense, right? Or I'm missing something, don't get me wrong I love Markbass still have it, and still have GRbass as backup. But point here is something that inspire us more than other, matter of taste.

Truthfully I think there are people that would think that their car because is red, or their, or different tires goes faster, or just because they are better drivers... but we are not talking about that.

There is a trust in something, believing... I'm just saying it's not just technical stuff.

Hope you understand, this is kind of the same subject as "Jaco only needed 4". You know what, who cares, he loved it and in that period in time that inspired him, as some other things.

So I love it, and who cares.... ha! After all I'm just a small bass player in small country, that likes what I like, even if I'm wrong.

 

[agedhorse]

You are a hard nut....

So here explanation. You have Ampeg SVT and Bassman they are completely different, that's why for example Origin effects make pedals of their character. Now Imagine this with Markbass, GRbass and Gallien and Kruger, doesn't make any sense, right? Or I'm missing something, don't get me wrong I love Markbass still have it, and still have GRbass as backup. But point here is something that inspire us more than other, matter of taste.

Truthfully I think there are people that would think that their car because is red, or their, or different tires goes faster, or just because they are better drivers... but we are not talking about that.

There is a trust in something, believing... I'm just saying it's not just technical stuff.

Hope you understand, this is kind of the same subject as "Jaco only needed 4". You know what, who cares, he loved it and in that period in time that inspired him, as some other things.

So I love it, and who cares.... ha! After all I'm just a small bass player in small country, that likes what I like, even if I'm wrong.

No, I totally get it and actually do appreciate that different players prefer different things and WHY they do (that's a big part of my job). Otherwise, there would be no need for me to design different models would there?

My point is that assigning a particular trait of an amp to a technical aspect that in reality may not have anything to do with the reason a player likes (or hates) an amp makes no sense, unless it's purely on belief rather than fact. That's why we do double-blind testing, to determine FOR SURE that any suspected differences are actually real and identifiable. Double-blind testing is a quick way to prove or disprove any particular element's contribution (or detraction) is in fact real. When the statistics show zero statistical difference in their choices in spite of a player's belief, it's a pretty sure bet that what we are testing for is not the root reason for the difference.

Of course it's not just the technical stuff, but the technical stuff are the tools that we use to create the art of designing an amp, or a speaker. There is a lot of art (and knowledge/skill) involved, but like painting (for example), without the proper tools, materials and knowledge/skill, a painter may not be able to express the art in their head onto the canvas.

If whatever amp you choose helps you express your art to the best of your ability, it shouldn't matter what technology it's based on. That's why I ALWAYS recommend that a player should try any amp before buying, their tastes and preferences are what matter. If you feel uninspired by class D, then buy something else, I don't see any argument or disagreement here.

 

[Franz975]

Not going to happen because the underlying semiconductor technology behind the lateral MOSFETs is being phased out. They have been "end of lifed" at the wafer level. Besides, these amps targeted a very small number of players that wanted the feature set and tone profile (very aggressive, with overdrive as a native voicing) at a time when some music (very hard rock and metal) was looking for this type of tone. IF we were to do an amp like this today, it would be staggeringly expensive (if we could even get the parts).

Packaging is very much the choice of the designer, what fits their technology and their customer's needs.

What is the wafer level ? It is like the older part are not usable with actual part ?

 

[agedhorse]

What is the wafer level ? It is like the older part are not usable with actual part ?

Wafer is the master element in the semiconductor fabrication process that the individual die come from. The die is the part that is packaged to create the semiconductor device which is the end product of the semiconductor process.

When planning for developing any new product, an experienced designer will do a “deep dive” into the types of components required to execute a particular design to be sure they will be available IN PRODUCTION QUANTITIES so that whatever is designed can actually be built. Otherwise, investing a lot of resources in a design can be lost if the parts are not available.

For example, if we set a target of say 10,000 amps to be built over the lifespan of the model(s), and each amp requires 12 MOSFETs, we would meet to insure availability of 120,000 MOSFETs plus ~10% for damage, service stock and service assemblies. That would be ~130,000 parts, which are simply not going to be available.

The same evaluation applies to every critical path part to be sure the amps that are designed can actually be built as designed.

Hope this helps with the understanding of what it takes to put an amp that ships in higher volumes into a production environment.

 

[Geri O]

You are a hard nut....

So here explanation. You have Ampeg SVT and Bassman they are completely different, that's why for example Origin effects make pedals of their character. Now Imagine this with Markbass, GRbass and Gallien and Kruger, doesn't make any sense, right? Or I'm missing something, don't get me wrong I love Markbass still have it, and still have GRbass as backup. But point here is something that inspire us more than other, matter of taste.

Truthfully I think there are people that would think that their car because is red, or their, or different tires goes faster, or just because they are better drivers... but we are not talking about that.

There is a trust in something, believing... I'm just saying it's not just technical stuff.

Hope you understand, this is kind of the same subject as "Jaco only needed 4". You know what, who cares, he loved it and in that period in time that inspired him, as some other things.

So I love it, and who cares.... ha! After all I'm just a small bass player in small country, that likes what I like, even if I'm wrong.

Geez. They've come out of the woodwork lately….

You are addressing the one that understands all of that so much more than possibly anyone. He has a background that you are apparently quite clueless about.

The more you guys talk, the more you badly embarrass yourselves (not Andreas).

From this point forward, this thread is nothing more than a little country stock-car racing track with all the locals lined up watching and waiting for the crashes.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I have gigged Mesa M-pulse series for more than 10 years and they have been some of my favourite amps (and my fav of the Mesa family), while the Sisma has a different tone character I can say that it was surely an inspiration in mixing passive and active eq.

Never did try those. The first Mesa amp I played was a Walkabout but only for a few minutes. Now the WD-800.

 

[12bass]

Geez. They've come out of the woodwork lately….

You are addressing the one that understands all of that so much more than possibly anyone. He has a background that you are apparently quite clueless about.

The more you guys talk, the more you badly embarrass yourselves (not Andreas).

From this point forward, this thread is nothing more than a little country stock-car racing track with all the locals lined up watching and waiting for the crashes.

Uncharitable interpretation.

Bassists from around the world participate here, many if whom do not speak English, use translators, etc... with varying skills, experience, and taste.

I'd suggest not assuming the worst about people and try to understand that others do not necessarily share your language, sensibilities, and perspective, and are merely expressing themselves honestly on an international bass forum, as best they can. For the most part, the challenge to authority and orthodoxy some seem to perceive here is sadly misplaced.

Hopefully people will try to be a bit more understanding moving forward...

 

[Jim C]

Never did try those. The first Mesa amp I played was a Walkabout but only for a few minutes. Now the WD-800.

Since this thread seems to be a Seinfeld episode, I'll play!
I used a Mesa M6 as a supplied backline last week. I had played them in stores but never on a gig. It killed. I never even touched the tone controls for my J bass even though the player before me had a Tele bass.

 

[DJ Bebop]

So this Sisma amp from what I've heard online and read at the website. It sounds like something I would try. It has the feature set I like. Have to feel it in person.

 

[12bass]

So this Sisma amp from what I've heard online and read at the website. It sounds like something I would try. It has the feature set I like. Have to feel it in person.

It will flap your pants!

 

[DJ Bebop]

It will flap your pants!

 

[smeet]

Since the old men are telling thrilling tales of yore - I’ve owned an M9 and a Strategy Eight:88 .
They were both serious machines of destruction. In general the tone was tilted more toward the mid-scooped nd of things than I like, but the hard quality of the note attack (especially the M9) and overall hugeness of the lows was quite amazing.

 

[agedhorse]

Uncharitable interpretation.

Bassists from around the world participate here, many if whom do not speak English, use translators, etc... with varying skills, experience, and taste.

I'd suggest not assuming the worst about people and try to understand that others do not necessarily share your language, sensibilities, and perspective, and are merely expressing themselves honestly on an international bass forum, as best they can. For the most part, the challenge to authority and orthodoxy some seem to perceive here is sadly misplaced.

Hopefully people will try to be a bit more understanding moving forward...

It appears that a good part of the problems are due to inaccuracy in translation. Had I known that up front, I might have phrased things differently to simplify the translation part. There’s no easy way to see where a poster is from on the mobile platform, and many posters leave this information off which adds to the challenges.

Since the old men are telling thrilling tales of yore - I’ve owned an M9 and a Strategy Eight:88 .
They were both serious machines of destruction. In general the tone was tilted more toward the mid-scooped nd of things than I like, but the hard quality of the note attack (especially the M9) and overall hugeness of the lows was quite amazing.

Yes, they were very heavily voiced to achieve that effect. I may revisit the Carbine concept down the road, but that tone profile became less in demand around the time that sales of the Dual/Triple Recto family sales also declined, following the evolution of the music.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I love seeing instances where the “evolution of the music” drives the gear choices.

Carbines are great amps, from a great era. Only a matter of time before they are “rediscovered” as the perfect choice for another evolutionary stage of music.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I love seeing instances where the “evolution of the music” drives the gear choices.

Carbines are great amps, from a great era. Only a matter of time before they are “rediscovered” as the perfect choice for another evolutionary stage of music.

And that is why I may have gotten away from the tube sound in my early years of bass playing. Even though tube amps were still part of the equation. I was listening to music that had more of a mid forward clearer sound. Even though, later in life the bass sounds I though coming back through my little record player sounded clean I find now were kinda distorted. Think Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, The Who, then Yes, King Crimson, ELP.

At the time I went for the largest powered amps my little kid money could get as my dad's B-15 was not gettin' it. Then I went bi-amp after working in a studio and seeing Greg Lake live with ELP. Tube bloom and harmonic distortion were not something I was ever chasing. So when I hear the Tube vs Class D vs Class G vs Class Whatever. I get kinda meh, then I get silly, then snarky.

I do get it though, everybody has a preferance and we live in a time where those preferences can be addressed and fulfilled

Sing on brother, play on drummer

 

[duncmill]

That's one of my favorite Hendrix (and Mitchell) tracks. Folks have asked me how they got all those squealing sounds toward the end: I tell them I don't know how they did it but when I was a kid we would plug a microphone right into the old Silvertone, turn it up, and point the mike straight at the speaker and go to town. Parents hated it!