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jamerson without going flat.

#63
This has been a very amusing thread, with all kind of Mule Muffins!
Love the guy who is beating his bass strings. Here are my thoughts.
1. You can't sound like jamerson without flats. If you could, Jamerson wouldn't have bothered with them, when rounds became available. Dead rounds, do not sound like flats, nor do half rounds. Jamerson played labella flats his whole career. Use those.
2. You must have high action. Sustain is not part of the Jamerson tone. To build up hand strength, play a German upright, with crazy high action and really stiff strings for years and years.
3. You must use a mute. Jamerson did not mute with his palm, no way he could have played so fast with a hard touch. He used the included mute on his P, rested his fingers on the bell, and played with his index finger "the hook" infront of the bell, pretty close to the fingerboard.
4. You can get nice old flats from the wonderful folks here on TB if you don't want to worry about breaking them in.
5. Don't forget the ampeg b-15, or recording direct to tape, through a tube board, using tube limiter and eq.
I am in awe of Jamerson, and love the man's playing. I love flats, but don't try to emulate his tone. I personally love a "modern" flat kind of tone, with sustain, grind and punch" The above steps though should get you near his tone.
The real challenge is playing with his sense of groove. The man was just amazing.
 
#64
your idol said:
i want flat-ish sound and round with a lil bit of flat/smoothness. i want a hybrid that feels like silk, plays like butter and doesn't require developing biceps on my fingers to produce a decent amount of sound.
...its alot to ask i know.
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i think you should start spending some time in the amp section soon :D

less bicep- more power, you should be set. it's better for your arms/wrists/hands/fingers in the long run anyway
 
#67
itswac said:
Don't worry about what anyone is saying to you over flat wounds. If your fingers don't like them, your fingers don't like them.

Stick some foam underneath your strings right in front of the bridge.

If you don't like the look of that or you want more versatility in your muting, practice playing notes on your left hand with your index and muting with the rest of your fingers in front of it.

If that doesn't work for you, pick with your thumb and palm mute. Be warned though, if you choose this option, you'll likely lose some quickness and dexterity.
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there is that. or you could order a bassmute.

Link Removed
 
#69
engedi1 said:
Hey Cloco, how do you like the bassmute. I have been looking at one, and balk at the price. Does it get the job done?
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i know. it IS pretty expensive but after lots of moments of fumbling the damn foam under the strings in between songs, having 1 string muted way more than the others, having the foam/sock/cloth suddenly move because i bumped my right hand into it, having the foam break because of extended use, etc ... i decided to get one before someone got hurt :)

you can set the amount of damping yourself for each string (allen wrench), there is a soft setting (half muted) and a hard setting (all the way). if you compress your sound (live or while mixing) you can extend the sustain while keeping the feel of the attack of muted strings if you desire. i don't do that because i like the short sustain but you have that option.
you can play quick lines or you can play with a pick for some Rickenbacker-esque sounds (i do say "-esque") or those Serge Gainsbourg vibes.

the construction is sturdy and replacement foams are send with it also.

it is quick, i can turn it on or off in between notes.

only positives BUT:

the only downside is that you have to get used to it being there. before my right hand was all over the place but now i have to keep out of that area. that is the hardest thing to do for me. no more really thin sounding notes by plucking against the bridge, no more occasional really sharp plectrum hits in that area also. breaking an old habit is not always easy.

that's about it. the resulting sound is fantastic! in that area it really does deliver :)

cheerio!
 
#72
Craig_S said:
Right! So get the brightest flats made and struggle trying to sound like Jamerson. You guys kill me with the TI suggestions.
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TIs aren't bright compared to Lakland JO Flats. But if you think they are too bright, that's why the basses and amps have treble controls. BTW, Jamerson didn't change his flats for about 6 years, IIRC, which was pretty typical of studio players back then, including Joe Osborn and Carol Kaye. I started playing in 1965 on a Fender P with LaBella 55 thru 110, high action, and I didn't know any better so I left it that way till Chris Squire came along and boinged us all.
 
#74
Thomastic-Infeld Jazz Flats and Pyramid Flats are both pretty easy on the hands and you can zip around nicely with them.
When I first received my Alembic way back in 1976 Pyramids were the stock strings.
My flatwound bass (a '72 Mustang) has D'Addario Groundwounds but I never change 'em. They're 16 years old at this point and just about right. I guess I'm taking my cue from Joe Osborne on that one ;)
 
#75
Jim Carr said:
+1

Jimmy is right. I played a passive P-bass for many decades, mostly with flats, but for about 10 years with rounds. Dead rounds and dead flats are pretty much exactly the same. Dead.

In fact, TI flats keep a degree of bright edge seemingly forever. If you want to, you can tweak that away with a 30% roll off of the P-bass tone control, but seriously, if you are channeling Jamerson, why are you so worried about shifting speed, as implied in your concern about sticky? Jamerson's technique relied much more on fast string crossing than on fast shifts, IMHO. :D
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I am not so sure I agree with this. Check out "I was made to love Her" by Stevie Wonder. Many 16 note fills and constant unison lick near the octave mark. Of course, Jamerson played this stuff on the stiffest strings, with high action, and a bowed neck. I don't know how he did it, but he did! I would have tendanitus in a week on his bass.
 
#76
engedi1 said:
I am not so sure I agree with this. Check out "I was made to love Her" by Stevie Wonder. Many 16 note fills and constant unison lick near the octave mark. Of course, Jamerson played this stuff on the stiffest strings, with high action, and a bowed neck. I don't know how he did it, but he did! I would have tendanitus in a week on his bass.
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I deleted my post because it was made without reading the part of the thread where the OP put flats on.

Concerning Jamerson's shifts. Of course he shifted, but to my ears, it is his string crossing where he expands register, and as far as the licks in a given position, such as the 12th fret passage you refer to, since there is no actual shift of position implied, I don't really understand the point. :eyebrow:

Of course, he shifts, it is just not where his lightening licks MOSTLY reside, IMHO. :D
 
#77
I've tried Rotosound and TI jazz flats. Both sound wimpish compared to the Labella Jamerson bridge ropes!They are great, lots more bottom and the Jamerson sound just pumps from my 76 Pbass. I'm glad I bought them.....just hope they don't bend the neck!:hyper:
 
#78
mccartneyman said:
TIs aren't bright compared to Lakland JO Flats. But if you think they are too bright, that's why the basses and amps have treble controls. BTW, Jamerson didn't change his flats for about 6 years, IIRC, which was pretty typical of studio players back then, including Joe Osborn and Carol Kaye. I started playing in 1965 on a Fender P with LaBella 55 thru 110, high action, and I didn't know any better so I left it thatwaya till Chris Squire came along and boinged us all.
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Carol Kaye never changed strings; she changed basses instead. She couldn't be bothered with such things as changing strings. She would just trade the one she had for another bass. I read that in an article about her.

Jamerson ended up with intonation problems, because he never changed the strings.

All I'm trying to say is if you want Jamerson's sound, get it with the same tools. It's really a simple solution. Why complicate things?
 
#79
MOSCOWBASS said:
I've tried Rotosound and TI jazz flats. Both sound wimpish compared to the Labella Jamerson bridge ropes!They are great, lots more bottom and the Jamerson sound just pumps from my 76 Pbass. I'm glad I bought them.....just hope they don't bend the neck!:hyper:
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Consider Jamerson's legendary warped neck...:scowl:

With an older instrument, you are rolling the dice, IMHO. However, if the neck is stable, it is stable. It is when you find yourself constantly having to tweak the setup that alarms should start to sound. All IMHO.
 
#80
Jim Carr said:
Consider Jamerson's legendary warped neck...:scowl:

With an older instrument, you are rolling the dice, IMHO. However, if the neck is stable, it is stable. It is when you find yourself constantly having to tweak the setup that alarms should start to sound. All IMHO.
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Yes, I keep it detuned by about a tone when it's not being used. I've had my Pbass 33 years since new, don't want to damage it now!
 

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