James Jamerson or Carol Kaye

[redkite]

Same with Pretty Purdie! What's going on in the heads of those early session legends...

I think they played on so many they don’t really remember and other people have probably said to them “I loved your playing on xyz” and they’ve assumed the compliment’s correct

 

[CochinoBass]

I'm 58 and I cant remember stuff from 5 years ago, I dont expect someone in their 80s who played on thousands of recordings to have a perfect memory of up to 60+ years ago.

 

[Melik]

That would be a plausible theory, if their claim came with a "my memory might not serve me correctly on this one, but...". Conversely, at least in Purdie's case, he doesn't show the slightest of uncertainty when asserting that he played on 21 Beatles tracks: Purdie

 

[Smooth_bass88]

The album “I was made to love her” was recorded at Hitsville, USA, Detroit in 1967. So, it absolutely positively was Jamerson on the session. Also, it does not sound like Carol Kaye, not in the slightest- your ears will tell you this.

 

[CochinoBass]

Yeah, I'm really not sure why there is any debate, it is 100% JJ on Stevie's version. Or it could be another finger style player like Wilton Felder, but not Kaye.

 

[Pietsch]

Motown's West Coast crew is credited with "Do I Love You" by Frank Wilson in 1965. (Recorded in LA). Carol Kaye credited on bass guitar.

 

[CochinoBass]

Right, but I Was Made To Love Her was recorded in Detroit. And, the bass is absolutely not being played with a pick. And, besides that, it doesnt sound anything like Kaye, and sounds exactly like JJ. You could convince me it was Wilton Felder before Carol Kaye.

 

[Michedelic]

This is the only rendition that might possibly feature Kaye on bass…


Perhaps she got confused.

 

[John K]

They could both have done sessions foir the tune. This does sound more like Carol to me, Jamerson wasnt as structured as she is

 

[Carl Hillman]

Just going by what is on the interwebs, the song was recorded in May, before the Detroit riots and before Berry Gordy moved main operations to LA, so I'll guess Jamerson. Also, Stevie lived in Detroit at the time, so I don't think it makes sense to fly him to LA to do a session.

 

[jnewmark]

Just listened to a video with the isolated bass line. Sounds more like Carol Kaye to me, though I wouldn't want to swear to it.

But her lines tend to sound like that, maybe a little stiffer than Jamerson's.

And I've seen videos of her playing live where she plays similarly complex 16th-note runs.

Could easily be either. Or maybe both recorded it, as someone already said. Recording companies often recorded multiple versions of songs they thought had the potential to be hits, replacing some or all of the players from earlier takes. From what I've read, sometimes even the players don't know for sure who was on the released version.

And other Motown performers would do other Motown artists' songs for album filler. Sometimes these "covers" were done by other musicians at Motown Detroit or LA Motown. Also, Henry Cosby, the producer of some of Stevie's early hits, including this one, left Motown when it moved to LA, so maybe it is Jamerson. For what its worth, Wikipedia lists Jamerson as the bass player.

 

[Pietsch]

Detroit Motown has an identifiable sound in the mid-1960s on many hits.

 

[mambo4]

Perhaps she got confused

I think she truthfully recorded the song, and just failed to clarify which version it was. From what I know of her scene she may not even have known which artist she was tracking for.

 

[Paul New]

The album “I was made to love her” was recorded at Hitsville, USA, Detroit in 1967. So, it absolutely positively was Jamerson on the session. Also, it does not sound like Carol Kaye, not in the slightest- your ears will tell you this.

I agree. Any bassist who has studied Jamerson, and I don’t know why that wouldn’t be all bass players, should recognize this as a Jamerson bassline. Carol is great, but this is not how she played.

I know this has been discussed at least one zillion times, but it really is important, at least to me. That bassline is a massive achievement that should be credited correctly. Some of those session players were real artists, even if the music they helped create was more product than art.

Also, that is definitely Eivets Rednow playing the harp intro.

 

[Rayjay]

They both recorded versions of this song and many others. Listening to this version, there is absolutely no way that's anyone but James. I'd bet my life on it. Saying that as a huge Carol Kaye fan too.

 

[DWBass]

The Stevie Wonder version is definitely JJ and I still can't believe he played that with only one finger!! Amazing!

 

[frankie5string]

Don't forget, by the time Motown was in full-swing in LA, they were recording multiple versions of their hit songs for catalogue/reuse licensing. I still believe Carol played on the catalogue/reuse versions of a lot of stuff, but because we nearly always know or hear the original "hit" that had Jamerson or Babbitt, it's harder to pinpoint.

 

[Pacman]

It's worth pointing out that JJ is credited on the album sleeve. In fact, it was the first time he was credited by name.

 

[Pietsch]

Before studying at Indiana University Music School in the 1970s, John Clayton studied with Ray Brown and Carol Kaye in LA. John played double bass in Dave Baker's band and studied classical bass with Murray Grodner. While we were both students at IU, John introduced me to the Carol Kaye method books for bass guitar. Here's where you can see them:

Amazon.com: How to Play The Electric Bass (includes Electric Bass Lines 1 & 2) eBook : Kaye, Carol: Kindle Store

 

[frankie5string]

Before studying at Indiana University Music School in the 1970s, John Clayton studied with Ray Brown and Carol Kaye in LA. John played double bass in Dave Baker's band and studied classical bass with Murray Grodner. While we were both students at IU, John introduced me to the Carol Kaye method books for bass guitar. Here's where you can see them:

Amazon.com: How to Play The Electric Bass (includes Electric Bass Lines 1 & 2) eBook : Kaye, Carol: Kindle Store

Years ago, she used to send a little package of info about her history when you ordered her instruction books. Much to my surprise, she included her phone number. I called her and we had a nice chat about Toronto (where she recorded with Motherlode) and she was wonderful to chat with.
I ended up buying her book (kind of a compendium of what she's written over decades on social media and her own forum) and it's quite the collection of stories and info.