True. I'm experimenting more with this. Yesterday in a live setting it was sounding better w/the pure nickles, and even sounded better with just the neck or just a little bridge mixed in. (Bigger sounding that just boosting the bass on the amp didn't do.) I just feel like I'm cheating myself by not using both pickups close to full on. I know that's ridiculous, and that the VV knobs are there to use any way the player likes, and that means one, both, "and all points in between" as the old song goes. Possibly for me and what I want to hear, using the neck with only a little bridge it just the thing since there is no right or wrong in this respect.
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True. I'm experimenting more with this. Yesterday in a live setting it was sounding better w/the pure nickles, and even sounded better with just the neck or just a little bridge mixed in. (Bigger sounding that just boosting the bass on the amp didn't do.) I just feel like I'm cheating myself by not using both pickups close to full on. I know that's ridiculous, and that the VV knobs are there to use any way the player likes, and that means one, both, "and all points in between" as the old song goes. Possibly for me and what I want to hear, using the neck with only a little bridge it just the thing since there is no right or wrong in this respect.
Hi there. Long time! In your description, what struck me at once is this:
- Both basses suffer from exactly the same lack of whatever it is you're looking for.
- Do you ever get to hear these basses anywhere but through that amp?
If true, and these basses are meaningfully different (age, wood, pickups, history, etc.), then what is constant? Two things:
- Your hearing and perception.
- Your amp.
My suggestion is that you start by not doing any surgery to these basses. DO NOT rewind their pickups. Change their strings if you must, or even adjust their pickups' heights.
But first try changing how you listen to them, leaving everything else as it is. That way you'll have a constant against which to gauge your perception of them played elsewhere (a channel strip, a different amp, a different room... anything to change the delivery of their raw sound).
Good luck!
Hey Snaxter! Hope you're doing well. You're pointing to something that is a reality. My Ampeg cab (212AV) does accentuate the problem I'm hearing. It's more scooped and I think is sucking some mid frequency out that helps balance a Jazz. My EBS 212 cab does not have this same problem to this degree--but I want to keep my current rig.
I do have an Ampeg V-4BH which is a little darker and less present in the minds when flat, and the EBS at home and the Jbasses sound better there, generally.
Not to worry, I have no intention of even touching a single wire or solder joint on either bass. I'd just sell them--but I do love to play them--just not as much as I'd like. I'm am going to listen better, and the only adjustments I'm doing are strings and PU height. I'm also finding that I don't have to have both PUs on full. They are adjustable/blendable for a reason. Take care!
Hey to you, too! I'm hanging in there. I hope you are well.
That sounds good to me. I'm sure that you'll find the answer within your amps or by changing them (for example, swapping out a speaker cabinet).
Today I was playing my latest arrival. Though contemporary, and with a set neck and five strings, electronically it is like a 1964 Jazz Bass (it even has Klein pickups). Each time I play a bass guitar with traditional J electronics, I am reminded that it's like designing sounds on a synthesizer. That would be, what?... a complex additive synth with just two oscillators, two simple amps, and one simple subtractive filter.
The range of timbres available is quite wide: between the two pickups, whether both at equal or differing volumes, or either alone, and notably (as someone mentioned) either or both with volume dipped slightly; then with the tone pot either open, shut, or in-between. Add to that your striking position (between nut and bridge) and playing intensity and style, and the range becomes huge.
You will find your baseline sound in there somewhere.
And once you do, then your amp should let you sculpt that sound into your target sound. An obvious point, I guess, but there it is.Go get 'em.
Took it to practice the other night. I put some GHS Roundcore Boomers so some of the hi's would not be so pronounced and it would have a string that tends to have a big sound. I played with on the neck PU mostly and with the bridge maybe 1/3 on for a little more focused definition at times. I was much more happy using this approach. I did use both PUs full on a little, but the scoop sucked some of the bigness I liked so I didn't stay with that very much. It did sound good with just me, but when we played it tended to be a little thin sounding. Next up will be some TIs I have to see how those volume settings work with those strings. But the Roundcores are certainly something I can live with if I don't find any of the other strings I have laying around even better.
In my hands, the Jazz Bass has ALWAYS benefited from a decent preamp, before going into whatever amp I've used over the years. For a long time, I just used an ART Tube MP. For the last 10 years or so, I have switched to the Sadowsky Outboard. That box is perfect for the Jazz Bass. Another good more recent preamp is the Mesa Subway. Neither is terribly expensive. Either one will go a long way to addressing the issues you are having.
BTW, if you do try a Sadowsky Outboard, make sure you know how to use it. Though simple, the controls are not intuitive. Mainly, the Vol is a passive cut, not an active boost. Boost is on the two bands.
BTW, if you do try a Sadowsky Outboard, make sure you know how to use it. Though simple, the controls are not intuitive. Mainly, the Vol is a passive cut, not an active boost. Boost is on the two bands.
I can't give you the answer because my definition of a thicker sound may be different than yours. But I can say that after about 15 years of playing J's I finally got sick of them and realized I prefer the P and Stingray classic. Jazz basses just are not thick sounding compared to humbucking basses.
One thing I'd suggest outside of the amp (think thats what you are hearing on the referenced tracks) is compression. When done right, light compression can sound really great on a Jazz bass. For an example of what I am talking about check this out :
Pretty sure DJ used a Boss compression pedal on this tour, so you don't need anything super fancy. Basically you just want to thicken the sound up a little.
As for strings, if you go flats, go with Chromes. They sound pretty huge on a J bass.
Thanks, I can imagine a pre helping. I've got a SanAmp VT and it's a wonder. But since my current all tube rigs I haven't used it. Seemed kind of redundant to have box mimicking a tube amp in front of a tube amp. But it's not silly if it works and gets you where you want to be or correct a perceived problem. Having it there for that Jazzes certainly won't hurt anything and I may give it a go. Just another tone sculpting tool when desired.
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Right. FWIW, I've used those even when going into an Acoustic 360 or SVT. They do NOT emulate tube amps. They simply address the "thin" Jazz Bass output.
That does sound amazing. Thanks for the clip! Another great sound I likely can't achieve!
I am more of a P guy and always have been, but I do love a great J sound as well (i.e. Timothy B. Schmit). I just don't get there tone-wise, nor am I going to change rigs anytime soon as everything else sounds killer. But then again, getting a studio sound that's been processed through no telling how many dollars of EQuipment isn't going to be easy or likely. But something to shoot for.
I have an old compressor I used to use and might give that a go sometime.
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That does sound amazing. Thanks for the clip! Another great sound I likely can't achieve!
I am more of a P guy and always have been, but I do love a great J sound as well (i.e. Timothy B. Schmit). I just don't get there tone-wise, nor am I going to change rigs anytime soon as everything else sounds killer). But then again, getting a studio sound that's been processed through no telling how many dollars of EQuipment isn't going to be easy or likely. But something to shoot for.
I have an old compressor I used to use and might give that a go sometime.
Cool. One thing I like about Jazz fusion mixes is you are not hearing a ton of studio magic. Yes I am sure there are great mics and killer chains, but there is usually no heavy EQing or aggressive compression. In other words, you are hearing the tones of the players. Since these are not kids trying to out volume each other, mixing jazz records is a much more organic and natural process usually.
It's definitely worth messing with the old compressor imo. Just keep it gentle and set it so the tone levels out a little and thickens. Usually attained with a medium release, 2:1 or 4:1 ratio and just enough threshold so it takes 2-3 db off the top.
I am adding one of these to my FSR Jazz next week! CS 60s in there already. Very excited to hear what it sounds like. I have not found many good sound samples.
When I first switched from a (non-Fender) P to a Fender Jazz I found I didn't really like the phase cancellation from the pickup blend and kind of hated the bridge sound. For the first little while I ran neck 100% and bridge 70% and below. I basically dialled in as little of the bridge as I could without it totally being absent, and the only reason I used the bridge at all was because I figured it had two pickups so I should probably use both pickups.
After awhile of just playing the J and ignoring my P I started to get more of a taste for it. Messed around with the controls and learned there's a whole range of sounds, particularly when messing around in the 90-100% range. I also found rolling off the tone to the 50-60% range could pop the mids out more. Same goes for backing both pickups off 100%, although it's not something I've incorporated into my sound; that little bit of treble bleed you get from backing the pickup down thickens the mids.
I found pickup height was surprisingly sensitive, and even minor adjustments were noticeable. At the moment my neck pickup is stock height but the bridge has been moved slightly closer to the strings. I've gone from nearly 100% on the neck pickup to favouring the bridge pickup for about 50% of our songs.
For strings, I like GHS Boomers after about 3-4 days and they last me about a month. New out of the package they have too much top end, but I love them once they've settled down a bit.
I'm no expert, but that was my experience. My suggestion is to stick some strings on it and commit to playing it for a couple of months.
My favorite Jazz tone is simply both volumes full and a bit of OD. If you don't play hard enough to get a good grind going, you might need to compress the signal a bit so you can raise the gain into grit territory.
Props on the Mike Levine reference.
Some of a good Jazz bass's tone is illusion created when locked in with the drummer.
FWIW I have had a few Jazz basses that didn't do it for me as well.
Props on the Mike Levine reference.
Some of a good Jazz bass's tone is illusion created when locked in with the drummer.
FWIW I have had a few Jazz basses that didn't do it for me as well.
Follow up: Used the bass Sunday with TIs and favored the Neck most of the time and had the Bridge off at times and others full on and all points in between. To get the same bass oomph I had to set the V4B about 3-4:00. Normally I' about 1-2:00 at most, but adding bass gave me more fullness. I thought the TIs would really be more full in the mids, but that was lacking a little oddly enough. It wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, but I'm much closer and every tone I rolled up was usable and pleasant, unlike before.
I took my SansAmp VT Dx just in case I needed more of something, but I think I liked what I was hearing from just the amp a little more. But I didn't have time to really fool with the VT or the amp for that matter as I had to be playing not adjusting too much. The good thing is I"m going in the right direction. I went from not full and honky on the disappointed side originally to fuller and needing a little more mids someplace, I think. I'm thinking of backing off the bass a little to bring our the mids a little more as well.
The search goes on, but at this point I feel some fine tuning and possibly a string change if necessary will get me pretty close to what I'm hoping for.
I took my SansAmp VT Dx just in case I needed more of something, but I think I liked what I was hearing from just the amp a little more. But I didn't have time to really fool with the VT or the amp for that matter as I had to be playing not adjusting too much. The good thing is I"m going in the right direction. I went from not full and honky on the disappointed side originally to fuller and needing a little more mids someplace, I think. I'm thinking of backing off the bass a little to bring our the mids a little more as well.
The search goes on, but at this point I feel some fine tuning and possibly a string change if necessary will get me pretty close to what I'm hoping for.
Another update: Used my '71 at rehearsal a couple of times now. It has GHS Precision Flats on it and I think for this bass it's as good as it has sounded. Sounds nice and pretty big. No honky mids either, which is nice. Tried a little foam toward the end on the last song and I was liking it, but will have to experiment further in that respect. (To me, foam always sounds good not in the mix, but in a live setting I can't really tell it's helping anything. Just me, I know, but it seemed to make a difference last night.)
My '62 has EB Cobalts and it sounds OK. Nothing to where I'm playing and thinking, "Man, this sounds really good" or anything. Right now I have to say the '71 sounds better. Even as a P Bass guy, I know Jazzes can sounds fantastic, so more experimentation is needed for more tonal bliss.
My '62 has EB Cobalts and it sounds OK. Nothing to where I'm playing and thinking, "Man, this sounds really good" or anything. Right now I have to say the '71 sounds better. Even as a P Bass guy, I know Jazzes can sounds fantastic, so more experimentation is needed for more tonal bliss.
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Try going the other way: keep the bridge pickup all the way up and turn the neck pickup down to somewhere around 7 or 8. Then roll the tone way down; maybe 2 or 3.
See if that doesn't give you the tone you're after.
