Jazz Shielding Pictorial (Big Images Warning)

[Vic]

I have one final concern.

Should I place copper tape over the section where the bridge is mounted onto, so the ground wire is touching it?

Should I make a copper tape "tunnel" that connects the pot cavity shielding to that shielding?

I imagine the ground wire will seep into the finish under all that pressure from the 5 mounting screws, so would it be wise to solder the ground wire to the backside of the the bridge?

nah, just fan the wires under the bridge. it's highly unlikely even over time that would break connection.

optional, but not a bad idea, some have used copper tubing, some have wrapped those wires in copper tape and soldered one end, alternative is to replace pickup wires with shielded wire.

 

[BlueTalon]

Got some links for the tape? Feel like I have egg on my face right now, but I'm willing to learn and save.

Try this: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

For three times the price of the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], you get nine times the copper tape. It takes a bit longer to shield a large flat surface, but it's a heckuva lot easier to manipulate in tighter spaces.

 

[Vic]

What I'm talking about is making another copper tunnel, that connects the pot cavity to the piece of copper tape that I will place over the body section (where the bridge is mounted onto.)

no. ground doesn't need to be shielded. only signals.

 

[mortenvg]

Nice description Lyle!
Is it necessary to tack solder each pieces of copper foil? I thought that the foil itself was
conductive? I just finished my Yamaha TRB mod, and did the same without tack soldering (see picture), and I'm pretty happy with the result. Maybe I should try to follow your advice to see if I can get an even better result

 

[scotch]

Soldering all the pieces together is smart & easy 'insurance' against the adhesive failing at some point down the road...

Necessary? No.

Highly recommended? Yes.

 

[Vic]

Soldering all the pieces together is smart & easy 'insurance' against the adhesive failing at some point down the road...

Necessary? No.

Highly recommended? Yes.

definitely, +1

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Nice description Lyle!
Is it necessary to tack solder each pieces of copper foil? I thought that the foil itself was
conductive? I just finished my Yamaha TRB mod, and did the same without tack soldering (see picture), and I'm pretty happy with the result. Maybe I should try to follow your advice to see if I can get an even better result

View attachment 678177

I never tack solder, it shouldn't be an issue with conductive foil. It isn't a bad thing to do but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. You can always open the cavity and make the connections if you find you still have noise.

I would recommend that you bring the foil in that cavity up over the edge. You want the foil to make contact with the plate. I would cover at least one screw hole for optimal contact, the screw will pierce the foil.

 

[Vic]

I never tack solder, it shouldn't be an issue with conductive foil. It isn't a bad thing to do but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. You can always open the cavity and make the connections if you find you still have noise.

I disagree with this advice. it's true the conductive adhesive should make this unnecessary, but the problem is it dries out over time an can become unreliable. plus, i really like to be "one and done" with a job and never have to worry about fixing it up later. it's so simple and quick to tack solder while you're doing all this, i really don't see any reason not to.

I would recommend that you bring the foil in that cavity up over the edge. You want the foil to make contact with the plate. I would cover at least one screw hole for optimal contact, the screw will pierce the foil.

very definitely. +1

 

[fnordlyone]

Nice description Lyle!
Is it necessary to tack solder each pieces of copper foil? I thought that the foil itself was
conductive? I just finished my Yamaha TRB mod, and did the same without tack soldering (see picture), and I'm pretty happy with the result. Maybe I should try to follow your advice to see if I can get an even better result

View attachment 678177

The result should be: silence. With your bass plugged into your amp/cabs and your bass volume cranked. Anything less and you have a hole in your shield somewhere.
I did three basses recently with nothing but Stew Mac conductive shielding paint-- three coats, waiting 24 hours between. The paint is very thin like a stain, so 3 coats seemed like a minimum. The paint doesn't stick to plastic: so, I covered under side including all screw holes in covers and pick guard with aluminum tape. I painted the connecting wire tunnels with a pipe cleaner dipped in the paint. I painted up and over the spots where the covers' aluminum would touch down upon screwing. Also slapped a small piece of aluminum on top of the pick up screw holes. I didn't shield pu covers. I thought I had screw up the wiring the bass was so silent. Then I plucked a note and smiled.
Total and complete silence until a note is plucked: priceless.
totally worth the hassle,
fnord!

 

[BlueTalon]

I would recommend that you bring the foil in that cavity up over the edge. You want the foil to make contact with the plate. I would cover at least one screw hole for optimal contact, the screw will pierce the foil.

True this. That picture showed no foil at all coming over the edge. If it's me, I'm going all the way around and using all the screw holes, but that's me.

I never tack solder, it shouldn't be an issue with conductive foil. It isn't a bad thing to do but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. You can always open the cavity and make the connections if you find you still have noise.

While you're right, it shouldn't be an issue with conductive adhesive, I do it anyway. It's redundant, in a good way. My goal is to do it all right the first time, so going back in isn't necessary.

I disagree with this advice. it's true the conductive adhesive should make this unnecessary, but the problem is it dries out over time an can become unreliable. plus, i really like to be "one and done" with a job and never have to worry about fixing it up later. it's so simple and quick to tack solder while you're doing all this, i really don't see any reason not to.

One of the benefits to soldering is theoretically it will help keep the copper foil in place if the adhesive ever fails. But have you ever actually seen it fail? That adhesive is strong stuff. If the surface is prepped and the foil is pressed down everywhere, the adhesive fully engages and it's never going to come loose.

 

[Vic]

One of the benefits to soldering is theoretically it will help keep the copper foil in place if the adhesive ever fails. But have you ever actually seen it fail? That adhesive is strong stuff. If the surface is prepped and the foil is pressed down everywhere, the adhesive fully engages and it's never going to come loose.

I've never tack soldered to try and keep the foil in place. I've always done it simply to maintain a zero to near-zero ohm resistance throughout. And it's not as much about how well it adheres to the wood as it is adhering to itself, AND, over time as the adhesive dries out, the "connection" degrades, which moves you farther away from zero ohms. IMHO, it's just so simple and easy to tack solder it's worth it to absolutely guarantee your zero to near-zero ohm connectivity will never go away, insuring the integrity of your shield can will never be a concern, ever.

 

[BlueTalon]

I've never tack soldered to try and keep the foil in place. I've always done it simply to maintain a zero to near-zero ohm resistance throughout. And it's not as much about how well it adheres to the wood as it is adhering to itself, AND, over time as the adhesive dries out, the "connection" degrades, which moves you farther away from zero ohms. IMHO, it's just so simple and easy to tack solder it's worth it to absolutely guarantee your zero to near-zero ohm connectivity will never go away, insuring the integrity of your shield can will never be a concern, ever.

Preaching to the choir here, I do it for the same reason you do it.

I'm still not convinced about adhesive "drying out" though. Have you ever seen it? Just about everyone who has mentioned it as a possibility I have asked if they have seen it, and to date, nobody I've asked has actually seen it. Some tapes have weak adhesive, but other tapes have adhesive so strong it outlasts the tape.

At this point, I suspect it's somewhat of an urban legend. Perhaps older copper tape had poorer adhesive to begin with, or maybe there was some bad batches along the way, but I think the copper tape available now has adhesive that is fairly bulletproof.

I'm still going to solder it, though.

 

[Vic]

I'm still not convinced about adhesive "drying out" though. Have you ever seen it? Just about everyone who has mentioned it as a possibility I have asked if they have seen it, and to date, nobody I've asked has actually seen it. Some tapes have weak adhesive, but other tapes have adhesive so strong it outlasts the tape.

At this point, I suspect it's somewhat of an urban legend. Perhaps older copper tape had poorer adhesive to begin with, or maybe there was some bad batches along the way, but I think the copper tape available now has adhesive that is fairly bulletproof.

I'm still going to solder it, though.

sorry, meant to answer... yes, I have. not in any of my jobs, but i sometimes do repairs for friends and in some cases i've seen some where it's literally even come apart... come off the wood, and even come away from itself.

now, that said, can i assure i've seen all cases with all brands of foil? no. there are many brands of varying quality, and i have no idea how old some of those foil jobs are, which gets into not only the quality of the foil at the time as well as the effects of time.

bottom line is, at least to me, it's so trivial to get the "guarantee" it's literally not even worth discussing.

 

[Hans Larsen]

I'm getting set to shield my jazz bass, and I've read through about half of this forum. I think I have a good handle on most things, especially as I'm not planning to change the wiring away from standard.

A question or two. Is there much to be gained by shielding the back of the pickguard?

IF that answer is yes, I have some concerns over that as there's no good way to ensure a secure ground path. I can take the copper over the edge of the neck pickup cavity, but how do you make sure it makes contact? I'm thinking of running a copper foil strip from the neck cavity to the closest screw on the pg. Too much?

Edit: Ah, I think I found the answer in this forum, joining the pg to the control plate with a short piece of foil. Ok, plan in place.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I'm getting set to shield my jazz bass, and I've read through about half of this forum. I think I have a good handle on most things, especially as I'm not planning to change the wiring away from standard.

A question or two. Is there much to be gained by shielding the back of the pickguard?

IF that answer is yes, I have some concerns over that as there's no good way to ensure a secure ground path. I can take the copper over the edge of the neck pickup cavity, but how do you make sure it makes contact? I'm thinking of running a copper foil strip from the neck cavity to the closest screw on the pg. Too much?

If your bass has a route under the pickguard then you will need to shield the area that covers that route. Bring the cavity shielding up onto the top so it makes contact with the pickguard, the guard is grounded through contact with the cavity shielding. I cover a screwhole so it pierces both pieces of foil. If your bass has no routing on the top, other than pickup routes, then you do not need to shield the guard.

I hope that helps.

 

[Hans Larsen]

If your bass has a route under the pickguard then you will need to shield the area that covers that route. Bring the cavity shielding up onto the top so it makes contact with the pickguard, the guard is grounded through contact with the cavity shielding. I cover a screwhole so it pierces both pieces of foil. If your bass has no routing on the top, other than pickup routes, then you do not need to shield the guard.

I hope that helps.

It does, thank you. I'm debating whether to go with the true star config or the quasi-star with the controls to the jack ground. The best reason I can think of with the quasi-star is that your cap is then anchored at both ends with stable connections, rather than one end to the tone pot and a wire to the ground lug on the other end. Without any experience one way or the other, each presents compelling arguments (or maybe no discernable difference in effect).

I do have another question, and it is probably a major moronic moment for me. In examining Lyle's original pics and diagram, everything except for the controls runs to the lug. What is the source of the ground for that lug? I don't see where it's running back to the jack sleeve, so how is that grounded? Through the lug casing, perhaps? Wouldn't everything, including the star, need to run back to the jack sleeve as the ultimate ground source? That would be three wires, 2 hot for the pups, and 1 ground for the sleeve, and I don't see it.

 

[BlueTalon]

I do have another question, and it is probably a major moronic moment for me. In examining Lyle's original pics and diagram, everything except for the controls runs to the lug. What is the source of the ground for that lug? I don't see where it's running back to the jack sleeve, so how is that grounded? Through the lug casing, perhaps? Wouldn't everything, including the star, need to run back to the jack sleeve as the ultimate ground source? That would be three wires, 2 hot for the pups, and 1 ground for the sleeve, and I don't see it.

As long as it's all grounded, you should be good. Don't overthink it.

This is just one man's opinion, but I like to keep the bridge/shield ground and the signal ground separated up to the jack. It works well for me.

 

[iain westland]

Ok, stupid question time.... I've just built a bass and am waiting for some copper tape to finish it off while waiting for my p46. In the mean time I've put an old split in, not potted. When the cover off the magnets are bound with tape, that's it.

I've just plugged it in to a behringer vamp to try it (make sure all's working ok. I've got the volume and master maxed out, the compression at full and the gain on the 70s British SIM at 50% and I've got a very faint hum that diminishes if I touch the bridge. If I touch the magnets I get loads of crackle (cyclical rather than solid)

As this is a cheap pup, and this things not shielded yet, I'd have thought on those settings it would be deafening but if I turn off the compression and zero the gain it's silent (gentle tap on the neck with my finger nail is heard loud an clear... (in listening through DT100 headphones )

So, either I've done such a fantastic job bolting this together that shielding isn't necessary or this rooms not got many signals floating around it....(im going with the second personally)

I'm gonna have to test my work when done, so what's the best way to flood a room with interference?

Also, why do we shield the cavities and not the pup?

 

[Schilling]

I'm trying to follow your steps on my warwick corvette. Passive SC pickups, active/passive electronic.
It buzzes depending on which way i face, going from quiet to very loud buzz and back every 90° and it's driving me rather mad. The two pickups are wound the same way it seems, they don't cancel each others buzz out when 50/50 blended. My other bass has 2 humbuckers and is dead quiet, so it must be coming from the bass.
I can get rid of most of it by blending the high frequencies out, but that's a less than satisfying solution (and only works while running on battery/active)

Shielding the electronic cavity was easy enough, conductive all the way arond, also put copper on the lid and made a connecting piece to the rest of the cavity.
I'm trying to shield one of the PUs, but i can't seem to get it to work. The cavity of the PU is copper-ed now, just as easy as the control cavity, but fiddling tape thru the tunnel to the controls seems impossible without the wood pushing the copper tape around and breaking the connection.

Now, i've tried to connect to ground with a strip of copper tape going from PU to bridge instead. No resistance, but I get the exact same noise from both pickups, regardless of my work.
So, er. Did i just waste an hour, is this buzz just something i'll have to deal with? Or does the noise not change until you've done it 100% perfect and i need to find a way to shield that damn wire too?

 

[JackANSI]

I'm trying to follow your steps on my warwick corvette. Passive SC pickups, active/passive electronic.
It buzzes depending on which way i face, going from quiet to very loud buzz and back every 90° and it's driving me rather mad. The two pickups are wound the same way it seems, they don't cancel each others buzz out when 50/50 blended. My other bass has 2 humbuckers and is dead quiet, so it must be coming from the bass.
I can get rid of most of it by blending the high frequencies out, but that's a less than satisfying solution (and only works while running on battery/active)

Shielding the electronic cavity was easy enough, conductive all the way arond, also put copper on the lid and made a connecting piece to the rest of the cavity.
I'm trying to shield one of the PUs, but i can't seem to get it to work. The cavity of the PU is copper-ed now, just as easy as the control cavity, but fiddling tape thru the tunnel to the controls seems impossible without the wood pushing the copper tape around and breaking the connection.

Now, i've tried to connect to ground with a strip of copper tape going from PU to bridge instead. No resistance, but I get the exact same noise from both pickups, regardless of my work.
So, er. Did i just waste an hour, is this buzz just something i'll have to deal with? Or does the noise not change until you've done it 100% perfect and i need to find a way to shield that damn wire too?

If you still have the stock pickups in the Warwick Corvette, the pictures online show those wires to be coaxial and thus already shielded well enough. So forget about trying to get a copper tube through the drill holes ("tunnels"). You can just run a single wire from each of the PU cavity's shielding soldered to the shield in the control cavity.

The "directional buzzing" is usually related to the wiring in the structure and/or some appliance with a motor or ballast (fluorescent, NaV, HgV lights). It is doing the same thing to your pickups as your strings do so it is pretty hard to get rid of. It's of a low enough frequency that the shielding you're doing will have little to no effect. Only tracing the noise to the source and turning it off/replacing it will get rid of it completely.