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JBL 2226 for bass

#61
different size ports, and good dampning material, polyfill isn't much. My cabinets sounds good now with a 5 inch vent. I'm an upholsterer and I'm going to use cotton batting inside with cheese cloth over it stapled on. I'm afraid of fiberglass insulation. Particles can get in your voice coil as I have read. I've also read to just use the batting on parallelle walls, cover one but not the other but put 2 layers on the back, top but not the bottom or vise versa
 
#64
all anybody says is its not this and this won't work, I work here and I do this, I make this. Well I'll get it like I want. You aren't telling me anything positive. I thought this was a how to site and positive feedback. I havent heard one positive opinion yet.
 
#65
I have used the JBL 2225H as a bass speaker. It came from the Old Melbourne Hotel in Western Australia.
Without the proper W shaped enclosure, it sounded very muddy, no matter what cab I installed it in.
From experience I'd say find something else that's designed for bass guitar.
 
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#67
BassmanPaul said:
<sigh> You can lead a horse to water...............
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but you can't tune-a-fish ;)

david B pruitt said:
all anybody says is its not this and this won't work, I work here and I do this, I make this. Well I'll get it like I want. You aren't telling me anything positive. I thought this was a how to site and positive feedback. I havent heard one positive opinion yet.
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You haven't heard one positive opinion, perhaps you have difficulties comprehending what's been written. You have opinions, they are not based on facts or science. You are not understanding the information that JBL provided, which for your cabinet size absolutely, positively will not approach 30Hz and JBL's own documentation backs this up. You are simply not understanding what you are reading, and the more you talk about it, the more obvious it becomes how little you actually understand about this subject.

Rather than arguing something that is flat out wrong, why don't you spend some time studying the math and science behind speaker performance and then you won't have to argue with wrong information... if fact you will resolve your own argument because it's not valid. The fact that you are arguing with a couple of members (including me) who really do understand this topic in depth is frankly absurd.

I have been designing speakers (including drivers) for over 30 years, commercial products where opinion doesn't matter but scientific measurements do. Because of my background with JBL, I am more familiar with this driver than anybody here (including you obviously) and I know EXACTLY what its limitations are and WHY it won't do as you claim. That doesn't mean that it can't sound acceptable to you, but that's an entirely different matter.

Frunobulax said:
I have used the JBL 2225H as a bass speaker. It came from the Old Melbourne Hotel in Western Australia.
Without the proper W shaped enclosure, it sounded very muddy, no matter what cab I installed it in.
From experience I'd say find something else that's designed for bass guitar.
Click to expand...

The 2225 and 2226 are very similar, the W type folded horn was also muddy as hell, it started rolling off the midrange at around 500Hz but was designed to increase the sensitivity from about 60Hz up through 250Hz and would then be coupled to a 500Hz (or possibly an 800hz) horn/driver combination, most likely a 2482 driver and a 2350 series horn. Not great sounding but had decent combination of efficiency and directivity.

Doufuss said:
For example, an ampeg sealed 810, which is arguably one of the best sounding bass cabs ever made, doesn't really produce much sound below 70 Hz.

Then, you ask, why does the open low E (42 Hz) sound so great? Harmonic overtones!

What you're hearing when you think you hear 30 Hz is the first overtone, at or around 60 Hz, and the second overtone at or around 120 Hz.

There really are very few drivers that can produce meaningful output at 30 Hz.
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So, it appears that Mr. David B. Pruitt does not understand this concept either, and it bears a little bit of additional information since every professional designer of bass amplifiers and bass speakers understands and relies of the following information.

A bass guitar generates a signal that is a combination of fundamental and harmonics (this is true of ALL stringed instruments). If it were to produce only the fundamental, it would sound like a sine wave and not an electric bass. Using the low B string as an example (because of the presumed desire for 30Hz), a typical low B will be composed of roughly only 1/3 fundamental and 2/3's harmonics. The sequence of harmonics (the relative amplitude versus harmonic) is what's responsible for why a bass guitar sounds like a bass guitar and not something else. Differences in the proportions of the harmonics are why different basses sound different, strings sound different, pickups (and position) sound different. Different ways of playing also affect the proportion of harmonics.

Take this example and say you are expecting to reproduce this 30Hz fundamental, you are already at only 1/3 of the signal being 30Hz (roughly 9dB down from if the entire signal was the fundamental) AND Mr. Pruitt's speaker cabinet calculates to be about 15dB down at 30Hz so the resulting response would be 24dB down, which is virtually inaudible. An SVT cabinet is at least 15dB down at 30hz, yet it sounds better than acceptable because the harmonics are what's responsible for what we are hearing. Fortunately, the brain fills in what's missing, a form of psycho-acoustics that is critical to understand in order to grasp what's really going on.

This is why real engineers study math, physics, and particle/wave theory. It's helpful to understand the details about what's REALLY going on rather than believe something even if it's totally incorrect. Yes, there are plenty people out there designing speakers as a hobby (and some who have commercial products) that do not really understand this very well if at all. These are not the people who are driving the industry forward with REAL improvements in acoustic performance. If you look closely, you will see that behind most truly successful designs you will find engineers who have done the math and understand the acoustic concepts as they apply to the math.
 
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#72
david B pruitt said:
what I'm trying to do is tune my cabinet down to 30hz ladies
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Not going to happen, no matter how hard you wish, how deeply you believe in what you believe is possible. You would have just as good luck flapping your arms really fast and pretending you can fly.

That's why we have the math to describe what's possible for a given driver, a given enclosure volume and a given porting arrangement.

I already gave you the optimal tuning performance potential for your cabinet, and it agreed almost exactly with what JBL's predictions are for the same sized cabinet.

Calling us ladies isn't going to change your cabinet's performance potential either.
 
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#73
you all must think I'm stupid but I'm really not. but your telling me SVT cabinets can go to 30hz. I'll get mine there to This JBL is better than any speaker ampeg ever used. I had a 8 10 SVT cabinet and head. I know what speakers will do what. I've owned enough of em. I can read. And I've read with other people say so you all have a nice day
 
#75
david B pruitt said:
you all must think I'm stupid but I'm really not. but your telling me SVT cabinets can go to 30hz. I'll get mine there to This JBL is better than any speaker ampeg ever used. I had a 8 10 SVT cabinet and head. I know what speakers will do what. I've owned enough of em. I can read. And I've read with other people say so you all have a nice day
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The more you post, the clearer it becomes man. Reading and comprehending are 2 entirely different skills.

Nobody is telling you that an 810 SVT cabinet's response goes to 30Hz because it doesn't and can't. It doesn't need to either, that's NOT where the magic is with the SVT.
 
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#77
byacey said:
I suppose a real world demonstration would be more meaningful in this instance, since you choose to ignore the numbers.

Connect your 30Hz sine wave generator to a power amp, and drive your 30Hz tuned cabinet to achieve a measured SPL of 110dB @ 1m. Please report back how long you were able to do this before you destroyed the driver.
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I get the frustration but no point in destroying a perfectly good driver. Also, pushing up the volume of 30hz will generate a significant amount of 60hz distortion that sounds enough like low bass, only to further reinforce the fallacy that the cab plays 30hz!
 
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#78
david B pruitt said:
what I'm trying to do is tune my cabinet down to 30hz ladies
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You could do that. You wouldn't like the result. It would sound like a wet fart in a concrete mixer as soon as you applied any power. And it would be the size of 2 810's.

The other experiment you could do is high passing your 5 string at 40 or 50hz and see how the sound doesn't change except to get cleaner and stronger.
 
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#79
Downunderwonder said:
You could do that. You wouldn't like the result. It would sound like a wet fart in a concrete mixer as soon as you applied any power. And it would be the size of 2 810's.

The other experiment you could do is high passing your 5 string at 40 or 50hz and see how the sound doesn't change except to get cleaner and stronger.
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I think he is using the term incorrectly, he's not describing Fb, but rather is hoping to reproduce the 30Hz signal accurately (ie. -3dB) in his 4.5 cubic foot box, which is not going to happen no matter what anybody does. Even in a 10 cubic foot box, 30hz is 10dB down and that's a huge box.
 
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#80
agedhorse said:
I think he is using the term incorrectly, he's not describing Fb, but rather is hoping to reproduce the 30Hz signal accurately (ie. -3dB) in his 4.5 cubic foot box, which is not going to happen no matter what anybody does. Even in a 10 cubic foot box, 30hz is 10dB down and that's a huge box.
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I was trying to explain without using any numbers. Not that I can calculate exact numbers either. Out of interest what would be the power handling at 30hz of the 10ft³ box?
 

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