JBL 2226 for bass

[david B pruitt]

Good Lord, thats incredible, I like that fat bottom crossed over with 10s and a horn so every note can be heard and not lost in the mud. I never could get that sound from full range. With a musicman 5 string the active is so powerful you have to have the right speakers to give you the clarity and distinction. Speakers sound different and its according to the sound you want and your set up and the music your playing. We play a big variety and every song calls for different bass sound more or less. 50s, country, funk, uptown funk, dec. 63, paint me a birmingham, swing stuff. So getting the right sound these days with the class D amps out and the older amps it not easy to put together the sound your looking for or it wasn't for me

 

[Redbrangus]

I've resisted weighing in on this up until now, but I'm a long time 2226 user and I will testify to it's performance as a LF driver in a 2-way system, as it's a great driver below 1.2 kHz. That's how I use them, as the bottom portion of a 2-way system, like a small PA cab or floor monitor. Or paired with a large-format horn in a 215 2-way box. They excel at that purpose, although there are probably more modern drivers that at least match their performance, but with the lighter weight associated with using neodymium. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a full-range bass cab, but I can see where they would be serviceable if you're not interested in having much high end. And they will perform pretty dang good down near 30 Hz -- probably better than most, but also not in any way 'flat' down to that point; 10dB down seems about right in that sized box. But, as I say, their performance is probably about as good as anything down at that point. I agree with the others that most of the 'loud' that you hear when you're banging out that low B is first-harmonic content or higher; you've got to move a ton of air to get real loud at 30 Hz and a 15" driver in a smallish cab can only do so much. IMHO, anyway.

 

[agedhorse]

I'm not criticizing anything except the factual statement you made that the 2226 response is 30Hz.

Factually it's not, no matter what you believe. It will be exactly what the math AND JBL themselves predict. In your enclosure, it will be over 10dB down at 30Hz and your justifications, arguments, wishing, faith and beliefs can not change this.

I spent almost 40 years mixing FOH and as an SE handing national and international touring acts I have used JBL products extensively, and have designed products with both the 2225 and 2226 drivers. They are great drivers imo, but they will not and can not do as you claim.

I don't blow smoke.

 

[Chef]

keep it civil you guys.

 

[david B pruitt]

I've resisted weighing in on this up until now, but I'm a long time 2226 user and I will testify to it's performance as a LF driver in a 2-way system, as it's a great driver below 1.2 kHz. That's how I use them, as the bottom portion of a 2-way system, like a small PA cab or floor monitor. Or paired with a large-format horn in a 215 2-way box. They excel at that purpose, although there are probably more modern drivers that at least match their performance, but with the lighter weight associated with using neodymium. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a full-range bass cab, but I can see where they would be serviceable if you're not interested in having much high end. And they will perform pretty dang good down near 30 Hz -- probably better than most, but also not in any way 'flat' down to that point; 10dB down seems about right in that sized box. But, as I say, their performance is probably about as good as anything down at that point. I agree with the others that most of the 'loud' that you hear when you're banging out that low B is first-harmonic content or higher; you've got to move a ton of air to get real loud at 30 Hz and a 15" driver in a smallish cab can only do so much. IMHO, anyway.

 

[david B pruitt]

I just use if for the low end. I biamp it and use 210s and a horn with a David Eden WT800. No its not a full range speaker but its the best I've found for the low end

 

[agedhorse]

I just use if for the low end. I biamp it and use 210s and a horn with a David Eden WT800. No its not a full range speaker but its the best I've found for the low end

That is a reasonable claim that doesn't contain false information.

That's all I was getting at.

 

[Asperger67]

David - you are fairly new here but perhaps you would be shocked to discover that some of the folks you are arguing with might know more than you THINK you know. You might also be surprised to learn that some of us have a LOT more experience than you do with these very products. You might consider this information before you make your next post.

The JBL 2226 not by itself a great BASS GUITAR speaker, and it is NOT capable of 30Hz performance. Before you tell me how wrong I am and how I don't understand what I am talking about, I was a JBL factory certified service and recone tech back in the 1970's through the 1980's, I am intimately familiar with their drivers and their real world performance capabilities.

The 2226 is a pro audio woofer, in a 4.5 cubic foot box with optimal tuning, it's capable of the following specs:

LF F3: 48Hz
LF F6: 44Hz
LF F10: 38Hz
HF F3: 1.8kHz @0 deg, 800Hz @45 deg
HF F6: 2.1kHz @0 deg, 1.2kHz @45 deg
HF F10: 2.4kHz @0 deg, 1.4kHz @45 deg

While the LF capabilities are fine for bass guitar, there is no way that anybody is going to achieve 30Hz performance under any meaningful conditions, not even close.

The HF performance is not very suitable to bass guitar because the on axis response is quite dark though not unusable. Because of the shallow cone though, the off axis response is pretty unusable for the vast majority of players, and this can't be "fixed" with a typical tweeter because the rolloff frequency is so low and not very uniform.

From the numbers, it's clear that the polar response is optimized for a crossover frequency of around 1.2kHz, where the -6dB figure contributes accordingly to constant power summing with off axis consideration. In fact, in most of JBL's products, this driver is used in applications with crossover frequencies between 800hz and 1.6kHz.

There are ways to make it work well, but not in the cabinets that you are talking about.

Tech infos are very helpfull 'technically' speaking... but he was just talking about the feeling he got from his Ears : good & sweet low sound !

 

[agedhorse]

Tech infos are very helpfull 'technically' speaking... but he was just talking about the feeling he got from his Ears : good & sweet low sound !

Accurate tech info is very important, otherwise absurd claims made get taken as the truth.

 

[golower]

For several years, I used custom cabinet that I built with a 2241 in it( 18”.) I liked it a lot. A Person might think it would not work very well but it actually did to my ears anyways and that’s all that matters because it was my bass rig. I used a Sansamp RPM into a Crown K2. I put a 4 ohm 2226 15” for a replacement in a Galien Krueger 15” combo amp and it sounded excellent.Used Bass box pro to model. I have four 2206 twelve inch drivers that Iam going to be building into two 2x12 custom bass cabs. All these IMO are great low end drivers for a bi amped or full range bass rig. Currently my bass rig is a Mesa Big block 750 (and probably will always be that amp because I really love it!) into a custom built 4x10 cab loaded with Beyma 10G40 drivers. Eventually my rig will be 2 4x10 custom Beyma cabs( 8 ohm cabs) with two 2x12 custom JBL 2206 cabs. Fronted by the Mesa for the 4x10’s and into another power amp for the two JBL cabs. Why? Because it’s my bass rig and that’s how I want it. I might run it full range or I may bi amp it. I could also use either set of speakers with the 15 inch 2226, or any of them alone full range.
That Beyma cab can handle 1600 watts. Why would I want that? There’s no sound engineer that would want you to have that thing cranked up like that on stage. The reason is because at home I like to play at a pretty healthy volume. Sometimes I had a five string with a phenolic neck and that cabinet handle that B string without any hesitation whatsoever And did not fart out. That’s why.
I built it to handle that B string at heavier volumes from your amp. You may have noticed many 4 x 10 speaker cabinets will not handle the B string of a bass guitar very well at larger volumes without introducing sounds better unwanted and pretty ugly. Kind of what I’m getting out here is to the dude who didn’t think a 2226 was going to handle or need to be modeled to handle better than -5 or -10 dB at 30 Hz well hello there is no bass equipment that’s designed that way to handle that. They are all gonna be that way. You just need to play at a volume that the cabinet can handle and still sound good your cabinets are just your monitor and either through a DI or ming your cabinet will that pleasant sound you get by not playing your string too loudly Through any cabinet well, then be taken by the sound engineer and made the sound lovely for the audience and sonically. You’re better off at a lower or moderate volume on stage and letting the sound do what he’s supposed to do and will do well if he or she is worth their salt. I know this is an old thread but I think I weigh in on a lot of old threads because I googled something I’m interested in and then I end up on them frankly I’m glad that they are here because it’s fun and it’s a good way to learn stuff the Internet is a fun thing as is talk bass. sometimes actually a lot of times what looks good on paper when you modeling a cabinet isn’t actually true or play out as expected in the real world you just need to build it or replace the speaker in something and listen to it and then decide starting on papers a great place for that.

 

[golower]

Beyma 10G40 cab. I don’t remember what the decibels were @ 30hz but it doesn’t matter it handles the B string like a boss. What Iam saying is forget trying to design a good sounding bass cabinet that is -1 decimal response @ 30 hz it isn’t practical and is a lesson in futility. Play your B string at whatever level of aggressiveness or volume you can while maintaining a quality tone. As a bassist that is your job with a B string. To play it in a manner that is successful, and sounds good with the rig that you are playing it through which is always going to have its limitations. as I recall, I designed this cabinet with one square foot of volume per driver, so 4 ft.² I enjoy the cabinet and I think it sounds great. It has a handle on the top in the back and two casters at the bottom in the back and I designed it so that I could roll it across the garage and tip it into the backseat of a Chevrolet Impala so I don’t have to lift the damn thing because it’s heavier than hell But I knew that when I designed it and so the weight didn’t matter to me it was a design aspect I could ignore and that’s not usually the case with most designs that’s for sure .

 

[agedhorse]

IMO and IME, there are much better drivers these days for bass guitar. I probably have more experience with JBL than most since I went through the JBL school and serviced JBL gear (both speakers and electronics) for many years.

 

[Wasnex]

IMO and IME, there are much better drivers these days for bass guitar. I probably have more experience with JBL than most since I went through the JBL school and serviced JBL gear (both speakers and electronics) for many years.

I have a pair of 2206s in custom cabs made by LDS. Not really full range drivers IMHO. The get plenty loud and have decent lows, but I don't consider them lively or musical in the mids or highs.

I am currently using them for low mids in 4-way system I play around with in my house. I think they excel as low mid drivers, however they are fairly inefficient.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Since this thread had been defibrillated back to life.......for those who have not played around too much with older JBL speakers, 2226, 2206 included keep in mind they are of opposite polarity than just about every other speaker out there, positive on the red terminal moves the cone backwards, the compression drivers are the same.
If your mixing, matching, combining with other speakers that could be a big issue.
Just to keep it fun their newer speakers are positive forward, most of those have a sticker next to the terminals to remind you.

Another gotcha can be if you start mixing and matching JBL recones with original cones.
Some aftermarket kits for the older series are positive forward.

 

[Redbrangus]

Actually, later JBL drivers, including the 2226 and 2206, follow the more conventional marking for polarity. Older JBL drivers, like E-140s and 2220s are indeed marked the opposite.

 

[agedhorse]

Actually, later JBL drivers, including the 2226 and 2206, follow the more conventional marking for polarity. Older JBL drivers, like E-140s and 2220s are indeed marked the opposite.

Correct.

 

[Geri O]

Actually, later JBL drivers, including the 2226 and 2206, follow the more conventional marking for polarity. Older JBL drivers, like E-140s and 2220s are indeed marked the opposite.

Actually, the 2206 (12"), 2226, (15") and 2241 (18") are still the old JBL convention ("positive voltage on the black terminal produces forward motion on the cone").

Later, we replaced the 12" in a certain old EAW cab with the JBL 2020 12s. They were the normal polarity convention. while the high driver (2241 compression driver - nail-shooter, is more like it!) and the low driver (2240 18") were the backwards convention. Damn, what a mess! I'e worn out a few Galaxy Crickets keeping up with all of that. I still have 2 Crickets in my tools.

I knew this because there was a house full of those drivers in use when I went to work for this PA company before we moved to EAW PA and subs, and powered monitors by Meyer and DB Technologies.

I attached a document from JBL that they produced on which drivers are normal polarity and which are "backwards".

And Damn, I'm glad I don't have to worry about keeping all that straight anymore.....

 

[Wasnex]

Further confirmation from the 2206 datasheet:

 

[agedhorse]

Actually, the 2206 (12"), 2226, (15") and 2241 (18") are still the old JBL convention ("positive voltage on the black terminal produces forward motion on the cone").

Later, we replaced the 12" in a certain old EAW cab with the JBL 2020 12s. They were the normal polarity convention. while the high driver (2241 compression driver - nail-shooter, is more like it!) and the low driver (2240 18") were the backwards convention. Damn, what a mess! I'e worn out a few Galaxy Crickets keeping up with all of that. I still have 2 Crickets in my tools.

I knew this because there was a house full of those drivers in use when I went to work for this PA company before we moved to EAW PA and subs, and powered monitors by Meyer and DB Technologies.

I attached a document from JBL that they produced on which drivers are normal polarity and which are "backwards".

And Damn, I'm glad I don't have to worry about keeping all that straight anymore.....

I just don't remember the 2225/26 having reverse polarity, nor the 2241 either, but it's been a long time since I've reconed any (since Regal bought out the theatre chain we had a recone contract with. They owned thousands of JBL speakers).

I know the finished speaker systems were wired so that the system had conventional polarity.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Actually, the 2206 (12"), 2226, (15") and 2241 (18") are still the old JBL convention ("positive voltage on the black terminal produces forward motion on the cone").

Later, we replaced the 12" in a certain old EAW cab with the JBL 2020 12s. They were the normal polarity convention. while the high driver (2241 compression driver - nail-shooter, is more like it!) and the low driver (2240 18") were the backwards convention. Damn, what a mess! I'e worn out a few Galaxy Crickets keeping up with all of that. I still have 2 Crickets in my tools.

I knew this because there was a house full of those drivers in use when I went to work for this PA company before we moved to EAW PA and subs, and powered monitors by Meyer and DB Technologies.

I attached a document from JBL that they produced on which drivers are normal polarity and which are "backwards".

And Damn, I'm glad I don't have to worry about keeping all that straight anymore.....

Just think if they had decided to at some point change the older'ish driver models still in production from negative to positive and keep the straight between the two different eras in system inventory!

I always considered the 2445 a nail shooter!

Attached a couple picts of newer JBL's and the polarity labels.