JBL 2226 for bass

[agedhorse]

I was trying to explain without using any numbers. Not that I can calculate exact numbers either. Out of interest what would be the power handling at 30hz of the 10ft³ box?

Good question, the 2226 has a pretty good Xmax at about 7.5mm, but the power falls from 600 watts RMS broad band down to only 150 watts RMS at 30Hz. The distortion (2nd and third harmonics) skyrocket too. So much for fundamental only.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Good question, the 2226 has a pretty good Xmax at about 7.5mm, but the power falls from 600 watts RMS broad band down to only 150 watts RMS at 30Hz. The distortion (2nd and third harmonics) skyrocket too. So much for fundamental only.

Not sure what to make of skyrocket.

 

[agedhorse]

Not sure what to make of skyrocket.

Somewhere around 15% THD at 30Hz, 150-175 Watts.

 

[BassmanPaul]

if you're trying to impress me with your vast knowledge you didn't do it.

Pity that because Andy does indeed have a vast knowledge base that he calls upon. I'm sorry that you are too stubborn to listen to a real expert who comes here to help and educate we mere mortal souls. LOL

 

[Haroldo]

you all must think I'm stupid but I'm really not. but your telling me SVT cabinets can go to 30hz. I'll get mine there to This JBL is better than any speaker ampeg ever used. I had a 8 10 SVT cabinet and head. I know what speakers will do what. I've owned enough of em. I can read. And I've read with other people say so you all have a nice day

"You're not the boss of me...." Stomps feet, marches off.

 

[Downunderwonder]

If I put in some additional dots hopefully a picture may be drawn that is more daVinci and less Picasso.

, a typical low B will be composed of roughly only 1/3 fundamental and 2/3's harmonics.

Good question, the 2226 has a pretty good Xmax at about 7.5mm, but the power falls from 600 watts RMS broad band down to only 150 watts RMS at 30Hz. The distortion (2nd and third harmonics) skyrocket too. So much for fundamental only.

Somewhere around 15% THD at 30Hz, 150-175 Watts.

Going back to a low B that is 1/3rd (power?) fundamental then split the difference a 500w RMS low B can be done without breaking the speaker but ugly with 15% distortion on top of the natural harmonics.

The next question is the relative loudness of -10dB 30hz vs 60hz etc.

 

[luciens]

I was an audio enthusiast back when I was in high school and for a while after that, and what little teeny scraps and bits I know about LF drivers and enclosure design is more or less along the lines agedhorse talks about.

As for the JBL 2226H as a bass guitar driver issue, I had a homebrew cab with 2 E140's in it back in the 90's. It was a gigantic bass-reflex design, done by the TLAR method ("That Looks About Right") and not the right way, using the T&S parameters . But it still sounded pretty good tone-wise and the performance at low E was absolutely thunderous. Even in the poorly designed (too big) cabinet, they just never seemed to exhibit any stress even when the pant legs were just a blur......

But the E140 turned me into a total JBL fan; unfortunately I never lived in a place with enough room to build a good hi-fi setup. But I was going to use the 2241 (IIRC) for the subwoofer if I ever got the room to do it in.

So I agree, just based on the application the 2226 is designed for and looking at it on paper, it'd be a great subwoofer driver, but not a good choice for bass guitar. You don't actually want high fidelity drivers for bass guitar - instead you want distortion, mainly the in the freq. response in the mids, etc.

And no you don't need it 3db down at 30hz to sound good on a low B . Probably not even 10db down. I don't know how much money you have to spend nowadays to get 3db down at 30hz, if you can even buy that kind of low frequency response at all .

I agree the harmonics can really give the impression of deep LF response on bass guitar, and in fact that's what's responsible for the character of the sound anyway. So you just don't need that kind of performance even if you had 20 roadies to haul the cab back and forth to gigs anyway...

L

 

[agedhorse]

Going back to a low B that is 1/3rd (power?) fundamental then split the difference a 500w RMS low B can be done without breaking the speaker but ugly with 15% distortion on top of the natural harmonics.

The next question is the relative loudness of -10dB 30hz vs 60hz etc.

This is why many cabinets that do not have very good low frequency mechanical power handling are capable of surviving bass guitar.

The relative loudness difference is very substantial, but all it takes is the suggestion of the fundamental (either through the 2nd harmonic, or just enough fundamental to perceive it) and the brain fills in the rest. This is why a HPF helps tighten up and better define the note, it's not the fundamental that the brain cues off of.

 

[luciens]

Going back to a low B that is 1/3rd (power?) fundamental then split the difference a 500w RMS low B can be done without breaking the speaker but ugly with 15% distortion on top of the natural harmonics.

The next question is the relative loudness of -10dB 30hz vs 60hz etc.

The real key to getting higher SPL and lower distortion at lower freqs is basically cone area. Course, the probability of me being wrong is very high, , but one way to do that is to add drivers. I don't know what the ratio is, but if you expanded to two 2226H's, I think, repeat, think, you'd double that power handling figure at 30hz. Meaning, it could handle 300W RMS (@15% THD), more or less.

Also, at the previous maximum of 150W, the THD would drop at 30 hz due to the doubling of the cone area. I couldn't say by how much, but it'd likely be significantly lower than 15%. It's probably not a linear decrease since 30hz is below the Fs of the 2226H IIRC, and THD rises quite a bit below the Fs of the driver.

But another thing that allows you to do is utilize more LF equalization electronically, if you want to flatten the freq. response., since the sheer mechanical limits are now higher.

Anyway, the basic idea is the more cone area you add, the more you increase the SPL capability at the lower freqs. That's not necessarily a linear relationship, though, and of course you quickly begin to run into size and weight limitations of the enclosure, etc.

Again, most or all of this may be wrong, as these memories are decades old now.

L

 

[Downunderwonder]

The real key to getting higher SPL and lower distortion at lower freqs is basically cone area. Course, the probability of me being wrong is very high, , but one way to do that is to add drivers. I don't know what the ratio is, but if you expanded to two 2226H's, I think, repeat, think, you'd double that power handling figure at 30hz. Meaning, it could handle 300W RMS (@15% THD), more or less.

Also, at the previous maximum of 150W, the THD would drop at 30 hz due to the doubling of the cone area. I couldn't say by how much, but it'd likely be significantly lower than 15%. It's probably not a linear decrease since 30hz is below the Fs of the 2226H IIRC, and THD rises quite a bit below the Fs of the driver.

But another thing that allows you to do is utilize more LF equalization electronically, if you want to flatten the freq. response., since the sheer mechanical limits are now higher.

Anyway, the basic idea is the more cone area you add, the more you increase the SPL capability at the lower freqs. That's not necessarily a linear relationship, though, and of course you quickly begin to run into size and weight limitations of the enclosure, etc.

Again, most or all of this may be wrong, as these memories are decades old now.

L

You would have to massively EQ down everything but 30Hz to make any difference to the overall tone.

 

[luciens]

You would have to massively EQ down everything but 30Hz to make any difference to the overall tone.

Agree, even 2 15" drivers is pretty pitiful if you really want to shake the place at 30hz....

L

 

[agedhorse]

The real key to getting higher SPL and lower distortion at lower freqs is basically cone area. Course, the probability of me being wrong is very high, , but one way to do that is to add drivers. I don't know what the ratio is, but if you expanded to two 2226H's, I think, repeat, think, you'd double that power handling figure at 30hz. Meaning, it could handle 300W RMS (@15% THD), more or less.

Also, at the previous maximum of 150W, the THD would drop at 30 hz due to the doubling of the cone area. I couldn't say by how much, but it'd likely be significantly lower than 15%. It's probably not a linear decrease since 30hz is below the Fs of the 2226H IIRC, and THD rises quite a bit below the Fs of the driver.

But another thing that allows you to do is utilize more LF equalization electronically, if you want to flatten the freq. response., since the sheer mechanical limits are now higher.

Anyway, the basic idea is the more cone area you add, the more you increase the SPL capability at the lower freqs. That's not necessarily a linear relationship, though, and of course you quickly begin to run into size and weight limitations of the enclosure, etc.

Again, most or all of this may be wrong, as these memories are decades old now.

L

More or less true

 

[Wasnex]

JBL loaded the 2226 into some of their subs. I believe the last was the SR4715X.

SRX4715 Tech Manual attached.

The frequency range is listed as 40 Hz – 1.1 kHz (–10 dB).

Probably makes a better low mid box than a sub.

 

[agedhorse]

JBL loaded the 2226 into some of their subs. I believe the last was the SR4715X.

SRX4715 Tech Manual attached.

The frequency range is listed as 40 Hz – 1.1 kHz (–10 dB).

Probably makes a better low mid box than a sub.

Correct, that's a box about the same size as Mr. Pruitt's box, and as expected JBL's numbers agree very closely with my numbers... clearly not flat to 30Hz or even close.

 

[david B pruitt]

Hey @david B pruitt are you stuck at home 'cos o' the pandemic?

 

[david B pruitt]

I'm not stuck home I'm out playing, have you got anything positive to say to me.

...... now, which box is that speaker in? I had it once in '08

 

[david B pruitt]

I've got it in a Peavey BX 115 cabinet, I'm gonna add a 2 inch port hoping it will tune the cabinet down to 30hz. It has a 5 inch port, JBL said use a 7 inch port so maybe between two it will be where i want it. Its good now.

 

[agedhorse]

Not going to happen, it's an IMPOSSIBLE expectation (especially ironic since you can't seem to recognize the difference between the MATH of diameter and area). Sir, you would benefit greatly from spending some time learning about the science and math behind speaker performance so that you can understand WHY you are so wrong.

(for the benefit of others here and not Mr. Pruitt), I'm going to share an experience that I read a while back about a DIY perpetual motion machine that somebody from the "faith based science" community was pushing with a go fund me Facebook promotion. This was one of those "generate your own unlimited free energy" schemes of course, but the guy was so convinced that he was right, that he was smarter than all the experts, that he made an utter fool of himself in front of millions of people that were clearly smarter than he was. He laid out his unique math, and it was even MORE unique because it was clear that he didn't understand even the most basic principles of more advanced math. This is in addition to not understanding the laws of thermodynamics and thus violating the most fundamental aspects of the physics behind his claims. He argued and argued that he was right, even when folks pointed out that essentially "1+1 did NOT equal 3". It became quite a bloodbath before Facebook took the thread down (I understood that it was ultimately considered a fundraising scam). The great lesson here was that if you are going to claim something outrageous, you should understand the subject better than those around you and not argue based on faith and belief alone. The physical world does not operate on faith and belief, but on science. Leave faith and belief to the non-physical world, where it can not be proven to be right or wrong (and where it doesn't matter anyway).

 

[BassmanPaul]

I'm not stuck home I'm out playing, have you got anything positive to say to me.

Very much so: Wear a mask and practice Social Distancing!

 

[DrumsAndBass]

I had some fun with JBL's in the early 90's. I used two 4x12 cabs made by KK Audio ( in Los Angeles ). One cab had 4 K-120's - ported. The second was ported as well, but for 4 2206's (H models). Each cab was fed 1 channel of a Pearce BC-1 with its own instrument cable.
I simply taped two tip/sleeve cables together ( I think that they were 15 footers). The neck pickup went to the 2206's with its own eq'd preamp channel and power amp channel. And the bridge pickup went to its own eq'd preamp channel/power amp channel as well. I used a quasi Billy Sheehan / John Entwistle tone. That rig was gloriously powerful. I wired in a volume knob (on the bass) and cable etc. for each pickup (not a new idea).

The tone was blissfully adjustable and defined.
JBL's are quite cool for a bass guitar tone.