JBL DF130 Vs. DF140

[thobbinghotrod]

I'm looking into what came in old fender cabs of the sixties and find a whole lotta variables. What would have come in a 1964 Showman 2 15 cab? and do the differences between 130's and 140's make any difference in tone? Any help is appreciated. Pic's are helpful too if they can point out differences. Thanks.

 

[lbwdog]

Mine was equipped with D140s and the last time I saw it, I lent it to a friend in 1973. I gave him my old gig with a Dallas based road band I was leaving, and he had no cab to play through. I'm sure he's been trying to locate me for thirty five years to return it!!

The D130s were spec'd for guitar IIRC, but don't remember the details....

 

[billfitzmaurice]

The D130s were spec'd for guitar IIRC, but don't remember the details....

The D130 was originally a hi-fi woofer, circa 1949. It was adopted by Fender as a guitar driver, since at 75 watts it was the most powerful woofer available at the time. By the '60s JBL made the D series their pro-sound woofers, creating other models for hi-fi. The K140 and later E140 had better bass specs than D130, but the K145 and later E145 were the only models that had specs comparable to today's drivers.

 

[thobbinghotrod]

Thanks for the reply's. I want to recreate the guitar sound of the old showman that my band just sold. The Showman had an impossibly clean tone but the speakers were very distinctive. I guess I'll try to buy a D130.

 

[Jim Carr]

My Dual showman (1967) had 2x15 D140F speakers. My 2 guitarists' had D130Fs. I could tell no difference in tone or power handling for bass.

 

[lbwdog]

Thanks for the reply's. I want to recreate the guitar sound of the old showman that my band just sold. The Showman had an impossibly clean tone but the speakers were very distinctive. I guess I'll try to buy a D130.

I'm thinking of putting up two K140s for sale...pm me if interested.

BTW, (while on the old JBL subject), I have a rare JBL S-15, which came out of an old Sunn amp. They were almost identical to a D130 except for the surround (IIRC). Actually, the cone was trashed years ago but I have a friend in Memphis that can restore it.

I loved all my old JBL 15s for many years!!!

 

[Honk'n_down-low]

I used to use E140's and they sounded great - back in the day : )

 

[62bass]

My Dual showman (1967) had 2x15 D140F speakers. My 2 guitarists' had D130Fs. I could tell no difference in tone or power handling for bass.

I could definitely hear a difference between the D130 and D140 in the same ported cabinet. The 140 had a bit stronger bottom end but less high mids. The 130 was also more efficient (or sounded like it was) At low volume I preferred the sound of the D130. I had the D130 in a ported cabinet I built just before the 140 was introduced. When the 140 came out I bought one and put it in the same cabinet and used it with the same modified Dynaco MKIII tube amp that put out 60 watts. I used the same Fender P bass.

As good as those speakers were for their time, I'd never go back to using them. There are far better ones being made today that are lighter, handle way more power and are just as efficient.

 

[Bassmec]

I could definitely hear a difference between the D130 and D140 in the same ported cabinet. The 140 had a bit stronger bottom end but less high mids. The 130 was also more efficient (or sounded like it was) At low volume I preferred the sound of the D130. I had the D130 in a ported cabinet I built just before the 140 was introduced. When the 140 came out I bought one and put it in the same cabinet and used it with the same modified Dynaco MKIII tube amp that put out 60 watts. I used the same Fender P bass.

As good as those speakers were for their time, I'd never go back to using them. There are far better ones being made today that are lighter, handle way more power and are just as efficient.

I still love the sound of a nice tube amp driving a pair of Jbl 140's lots.
Its been recorded so often in the past that it now sounds just so right.

 

[jnewmark]

Kinda off topic, but I have used JBL E140's for 30 years. the best sounding full range 15 to my ears ever. They get no love here, though.

 

[Bassmec]

Kinda off topic, but I have used JBL E140's for 30 years. the best sounding full range 15 to my ears ever. They get no love here, though.

Thats mostly because the folks round here are still trying to find a single 15" driver to absorb a thousand or so watts, so that last one percent of tone is obviously not that high on the list of priorities.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Kinda off topic, but I have used JBL E140's for 30 years. the best sounding full range 15 to my ears ever. They get no love here, though.

There's not much reason to love a 20 plus pound antique that can't take more than 150 watts, has a thin low end and craps out at 2kHz. Compared to Jensens and Utahs of the same vintage it fared very well, but 40 years ago Altecs were a lot better, and EVM15Bs were also superior when they came along.
I wouldn't mind having a cherry '55 Chevy for its classic appeal too, but if I did have one it would only come out of the garage for special occasions. By the same token I can see using an E140 in the studio or very low level gigs, but the latter only if I didn't have to schep the thing.

 

[jnewmark]

There's not much reason to love a 20 plus pound antique that can't take more than 150 watts, has a thin low end and craps out at 2kHz. Compared to Jensens and Utahs of the same vintage it fared very well, but 40 years ago Altecs were a lot better, and EVM15Bs were also superior when they came along.
I wouldn't mind having a cherry '55 Chevy for its classic appeal too, but if I did have one it would only come out of the garage for special occasions. By the same token I can see using an E140 in the studio or very low level gigs, but the latter only if I didn't have to schep the thing.

My experience with E140's has not been that, I have never had those problems and have used more than 150 watts into a 2x15 cab on a regular basis . They sound wonderful even after 20 years of use.

 

[Jim Carr]

I could definitely hear a difference between the D130 and D140 in the same ported cabinet. The 140 had a bit stronger bottom end but less high mids. The 130 was also more efficient (or sounded like it was) At low volume I preferred the sound of the D130. I had the D130 in a ported cabinet I built just before the 140 was introduced. When the 140 came out I bought one and put it in the same cabinet and used it with the same modified Dynaco MKIII tube amp that put out 60 watts. I used the same Fender P bass.

As good as those speakers were for their time, I'd never go back to using them. There are far better ones being made today that are lighter, handle way more power and are just as efficient.

+1

Interesting. I always felt the essentially identical sound of the D140F and D130F in the dual showman was probably due to the inadequate cabinet---too bad I never completed my DIY cab project at the time (it ended up as a home made road case for my Marshall head).

Hooray for the Dynaco days! All the big kids had them when I started. I still kinda want one. Did you finish the exterior of the ported cab with black padded naugahyde???

 

[jnewmark]

+1

Interesting. I always felt the essentially identical sound of the D140F and D130F in the dual showman was probably due to the inadequate cabinet---too bad I never completed my DIY cab project at the time (it ended up as a home made road case for my Marshall head).

Hooray for the Dynaco days! All the big kids had them when I started. I still kinda want one. Did you finish the exterior of the ported cab with black padded naugahyde???

I loved those old Kustom 2x15 cabs! I had one loaded with E140's and it really sounded killer. Heavy sucker, though!

 

[edbass]

Hooray for the Dynaco days! All the big kids had them when I started. I still kinda want one.

Just find any old Sunn tube amp, the circuit is virtually the same. The majority of the 60's stuff even used Dynaco trannies; heck the original Sunn amps were simply Dynakits stuffed in a box and labeled Sunn.

 

[62bass]

+1

Interesting. I always felt the essentially identical sound of the D140F and D130F in the dual showman was probably due to the inadequate cabinet---too bad I never completed my DIY cab project at the time (it ended up as a home made road case of my Marshall head).

Hooray for the Dynaco days! All the big kids had them when I started. I still kinda want one. Did you finish the exterior of the ported cab with black padded naugahyde???

No, I had planned to but I was doing a live TV series at the time and brought it into the studio. The art department took one look at it and said "we've got to give that thing a coat of paint", so they painted it a flat beige colour. Looked good for the cameras. I never got around to finishing it off.

The Dynaco was a good amp for bass back then. A friend of mine who played keyboard and owned a radio and TV repair shop managed to build a little tube preamp right onto the chassis. One 12 AX7 with volume, bass and treble controls. Had a great sound. He started building them up for all the bassists in our area (Vancouver, B.C.) and as far away as Portland, Oregon. This was pre Sunn days and I wouldn't be surprised if the guys who started Sunn got to hear one and decided to make them. I know we played with the Wailers and Sonics on several gigs and one of their bassists bought one the same as mine.

I just sold a pair of Dynaco MK IIIs last year. I got a good price for them. I had been using them in my home music system for years bought went to active studio monitors. You can find a site devoted to restoring and modding the old tube Dynaco stuff and MK IIIs come up for sale every once in a while.

They were great sounding tube amps. Very loud 60 watts with real bottom end compared to the feeble Fender Bassman heads.

 

[edbass]

I loved those old Kustom 2x15 cabs! I had one loaded with E140's and it really sounded killer. Heavy sucker, though!

I still have a Kustom 2X15 in blue sparkle loaded with D140F's. According to modern speaker design technology, the box is way too small for the drivers, luckily in the 60's nobody could just plug parameters into WinISD and be a speaker cabinet designer. The cabs had to actually sound good; as in a contributing component to the overall sound of the instrument vs a theoretically transparent signal amplification device.
This coloration is generally refered to as tone, a concept that seems to be lost on a lot of bass players who rely on miniature sound reinforcement systems as their "amp".
I'm not passing judgement, whatever floats your boat is okey dokey with me; I have a 1300 watt bi-amped rig that I use when a gig calls for "Seinfeld" sound, and I like it fine.
However, I personally prefer the tone of tubes through AlNiCo's driven by passive basses with everything breaking up just a little bit.
Probably because of my age!
To be fair, my Kustom sounds decent, but not nearly as full as the larger vented boxes with the AlNiCo JBL's (imagine that!). It certainly looks killer though!

 

[greenboy]

I'm not passing judgement

Sure you are! ; } - You made assumptions about a lot of things without hearing them, yet made all kinds of less-than-complimentary comments based on stereotypes, without ever having heard the rigs these poor profiled souls might use. I mean, c'mon: WinISD makes everyone buy mini-PAs (whatever those are, because I'm not seeing too many bass rigs that can come close to that kind of response) and they then sound like keyboard sampled bass on Seinfeld. Had to laugh ; }

 

[greenboy]

By the way, had some of these different JBL 15" models back in the day, as retrofits or in JBL cabs, or building cabs to JBL's plans (anyone remember those?).