So competent in fact that they stacked their mid/high cabs side by side for a mess of comb filtering.Hi,
This gig at Big Canyon Country Club in Newport Beach also had SRX gear, Crown amps, Yamaha mixers, QSC monitors. The crew was very competent.
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JBL SRX subs
- Thread starter speakermaniac16
- Start date
So competent in fact that they stacked their mid/high cabs side by side for a mess of comb filtering.
There's a sound company here that does that at the concerts on the green. I think they're afraid it'll fall over. You can hear the comb filtering as you walk past the stage but honestly it's not that bad, at least once you get a bit back. But it's certainly not ideal.
Hi.
A HUGE +1 for that.
Actually, when this subject comes up and I try (in vain most of the time) to defend my preferred way of doing sound, that exact phrase is usually the first argument.
Sure, it does look good in a classic sort of way, but the sound issues are undeniable.
Not quite correct.
Just the 180 Deg out of phase mid sub (Munjibunga mentioned) can help tremendously.
IMO nowadays when speaker management systems are cheap, more accurate alignment can yield much better results though.
Without knowing how those bins are wired or aligned, it's impossible to know.
There's plenty of sound companies to choose from, and unless one is dirt cheap, bad sound will get the incompetent ones out of business in no time.
Regards
Sam
A HUGE +1 for that.
Actually, when this subject comes up and I try (in vain most of the time) to defend my preferred way of doing sound, that exact phrase is usually the first argument.
Sure, it does look good in a classic sort of way, but the sound issues are undeniable.
Not quite correct.
Just the 180 Deg out of phase mid sub (Munjibunga mentioned) can help tremendously.
IMO nowadays when speaker management systems are cheap, more accurate alignment can yield much better results though.
So competent in fact that they stacked their mid/high cabs side by side for a mess of comb filtering.
Without knowing how those bins are wired or aligned, it's impossible to know.
There's plenty of sound companies to choose from, and unless one is dirt cheap, bad sound will get the incompetent ones out of business in no time.
Regards
Sam
They look to be slightly splayed trapezoidal boxes. If they were wired opposite phase the mind boggles at what that would sound like in earshot of both cabs.
A single sub in a group wired out of phase is a sub wasted and in grave danger of blowing the driver from the others pulling while it it is pushing. Cardoid arrays separate the steering stack and use equal numbers in each iirc.
A single sub in a group wired out of phase is a sub wasted and in grave danger of blowing the driver from the others pulling while it it is pushing. Cardoid arrays separate the steering stack and use equal numbers in each iirc.
Hi.
180 degrees isn't the only option.
Nor is running all the drivers.
In a cluster of regular subs, yes.
In an array, no.
One has to know what they're doing, as always.
Obviously.
Depends on the way the cardioid design is executed, but in purpose built cardioid cabs it's usually just all in one cab and half the number (or half the spl) of main drivers is used for "steering".
But, since in those speakers/stacks all the variables are fully adjustable, anything goes.
Including separate stacks and the same number of drivers in each stack.
Doubles the cost of the rig just for the sake of different directivity though.
Seldom worth it.
Regards
Sam
180 degrees isn't the only option.
Nor is running all the drivers.
In a cluster of regular subs, yes.
In an array, no.
One has to know what they're doing, as always.
Obviously.
Depends on the way the cardioid design is executed, but in purpose built cardioid cabs it's usually just all in one cab and half the number (or half the spl) of main drivers is used for "steering".
But, since in those speakers/stacks all the variables are fully adjustable, anything goes.
Including separate stacks and the same number of drivers in each stack.
Doubles the cost of the rig just for the sake of different directivity though.
Seldom worth it.
Regards
Sam
Any idea what Munji's sound guy is doing then? "Pointing" a single one to the rear is what got me going, ludicrous!
Some interesting reading.Invalid Link Removed Go down to about page 14 and you will see examples of facing a subwoofer backwards. One reason is to cut down on the bass frequencies onstage.
Subwoofer frequencies are omnidirectional, so anytime someone talks of facing a sub I figure they are knowing little.
So obviously you didn't read any of the link I provided.
I have played festivals where the sound company has some of the subs facing backwards. I have seen roadies with hammocks under the stage about 10ft back behind a sub array sleeping while a band is performing.
Hi,
Terrific article. Thanks for sharing. I even saved myself a copy.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Terrific article. Thanks for sharing. I even saved myself a copy.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Wary of pdf downloads on my phone.So obviously you didn't read any of the link I provided.
I know sub bass can be steered but it's way beyond the OP with a couple or four subs.
Google Dave Rat of Rat Sound. Check out his credits (start with mixing the RHCP for about 20 years) and then tell me or him that he knows little. The reason I cite him is he wrote the first articles I saw in Live Sound Magazine about cardioid sub arrays.
Muggles
Yeah, plenty of experts use dodgy terminology. Whatever, just don't think you can turn one of your subs around and adjust its phase and expect the bass to steer to the "front", 's'all I was trying to say.
Well you are wrong.
I'm sure that the majority of the people who post on here will never get that fancy with their subs set up. I no I never will.
It's phase reversal combined with slight time delays. Bizarrely, it works. It can even 'steer' left or right. Delta Array. Check it out.
Whatever, You could actually get the same results using just 2 subs. I can't really think of a practical reason why to do it in that situation. Go back and read your posts in this thread and then tell me you understand what is being said. When you get home on a computer read the PDF I referenced earlier.
There's some Acoustic space modeling software "EASE" that show you what's going on.
JBL has EASE data on their pro level cabs.
You can put the cabs in a big virtual environment and see what is going on.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Subs are omnidirectional unless they're producing a lot of distortion. That distortion often confuses people when they stand on axis and think they hear the speaker sub as louder. It's just distortion - not the original signal. You can array the subs and make the low sound directional, phases canceling in one direction, enforcing in another. You can do it with EASE first, later then live.
JBL has EASE data on their pro level cabs.
You can put the cabs in a big virtual environment and see what is going on.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Subs are omnidirectional unless they're producing a lot of distortion. That distortion often confuses people when they stand on axis and think they hear the speaker sub as louder. It's just distortion - not the original signal. You can array the subs and make the low sound directional, phases canceling in one direction, enforcing in another. You can do it with EASE first, later then live.
Or you are knowing little. Yes, bass notes are generally omnidirectional, but they are not immune to phase cancellation, which can be used intentionally.
