Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed

[johnnymac2201]

Jeff, I know you don't usually recommend transcribing bassists, but I'm sure we could all learn something from transcribing some of your solos! Not for the fainthearted.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Jeff, I know you don't usually recommend transcribing bassists, but I'm sure we could all learn something from transcribing some of your solos! Not for the fainthearted.

+1! I transcribed Manos di Piedra from Pump It and La Festival off of Ernie Krivda's SATANIC LP for Inner City. One of my students transcribed the version of Tears in Heaven off of Taking Notes and another student performed it in his Senior Recital. I've also had students perform Joe Frazier and Bach (both from Pump It!) for Junior and Senior Recitals. In the literature of the Electric Bass, these are some of the Bach Cello Suites IMHO.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I have this exact same question. I am working on some of the Chord Studies exercises and they are a really challenge. Hopefully my teacher will tell me when he thinks they are good enough.

Of course, stuff this deep, should be reviewed from time to time, just like I don't think I'll ever be done studying the Bach Cello suites (chord exercises of another name!) Pablo Casals studied the cello suites for something like 13 years before he performed them in public.
How do you know when enough is enough!

They're good enough when you can "hear" the approach tones and use them freely in improvisation of solos and bass line . It's all about thinking chromatically into those "high value" notes of the chord tones.

 

[Roy Vogt]

My dear friend and the most important teacher I ever had, Charlie Banacos died yesterda of cancer. My heart is broken. I will miss this great musician and friend. It is hard to imagine that I can never again hear Charlie's high tenor voice yelling into the tape machine, HEEYYYYY JEFF! WHAT'S HAPPENIN' MAN! Oh my God! I will miss him.

I've noticed a trend to get back to chatting over here. In Charlie's memory, let's cut out all the chatter and start talking about music again because I am already noticing a deviation away from the subject. This is YOUR thread. Get back to music, the pursuit of it, the learning of it, and share musical ideas with each other even while I am touring and can't hang with you guys as much as I would like. Some guys are tallking but not about music.

Learn music like Charlie taught! Rest in Peace Charlie because another like you won't come along for another century.



Jeff

So sorry for your (and all of our) loss. I'm bummed I'll never be able to have the gift of studying with him. That brings up a point, it's up to us to push the envelope and keep Music and the art of the Bass growing. Zawinul, Wayman Tisdale, Oscar Peterson, NHOP have all gone in recent memory. We have to learn, practice, and be our OWN Weather Reports, Oscar Peterson Trios, and Bill Evans. The Masters aren't getting any younger and it's up to the young guys (and some of us Middle Aged Jazzbos too) to keep the fire lit.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Sorry but i don't belive i gave a thumbs down, if it seems that way sorry...

Yes, you clearly did. Post #625.
Maybe somehow unintentionally.
Carry on.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Yes, you clearly did. Post #625.
Maybe somehow unintentionally.
Carry on.

Sorry, but there is no mention of Gene in that post by me. Genes name is mentioned at the start in the quote, but not by me, my reference is about the preception of the industry in general as noted in the last paragraph of the quote.

 

[JeffBerlin]

I have this exact same question. I am working on some of the Chord Studies exercises and they are a really challenge. Hopefully my teacher will tell me when he thinks they are good enough.

Of course, stuff this deep, should be reviewed from time to time, just like I don't think I'll ever be done studying the Bach Cello suites (chord exercises of another name!) Pablo Casals studied the cello suites for something like 13 years before he performed them in public.
How do you know when enough is enough!

This question shows why so many players need a good teacher. Many guys aren't qualified to make the decision to know what and how to move on. You can only give it your best shot. Without expert guidance, you will never really know if you are learning correctly or moving on at the right time. This is one symptom of being a self taught musician.

 

[JeffBerlin]

My bass teacher recommended a practice organization method that really works well for me, so I figured this might be a good place to share it:

1. Acquire 5-7 school folders, binders, whatever - one for each day of the week you're going to practice
2. Label each folder with the day of the week, and choose a topic for each day of practice. For instance, Monday might be chords and arpeggios, Tuesday is scales and modes, Wednesday you work on learning and refining songs, Thursday you work on sight reading, Friday is "play along with Pandora day", etc. Customize it to the broad topics you're studying at the time.
3. Each day you practice, work on only the topic listed in that folder for that day, and divide up your practice time into "Review", "New", and "Remediate" periods. "Review" is as it sounds...reviewing things you already "know". "New" is for new items within the topic...such as arpeggios in a new key. Finally, during "remediate" you go back over the things you worked on that day and write down what went well and what didn't go so well, then spend a few extra minutes working on the things that didn't go so well.
4. Update your folders with new information as needed. The broad topics shouldn't change very often, but the specifics will change all the time.

The beauty of this method is that it frees you from having to decide what to practice during each session, and it keeps you organized so that you give each topic sufficient treatment. I've been doing this for a while now, and it's worked out very well. I keep the notes I make while I'm practicing so I can go back and review as necessary.

The problem with this method is that it is like taking vitamin C on Monday, vitamin B12 on Tuesday, Vitamin A on Wednesday, etc. You will not be taking a balanced course of vitamins this way and neither will you learn by practicing many things one day a week on each subject. You will learn by practicing very few things all week long. Again, the narrow way to learn is the best way.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff, I know you don't usually recommend transcribing bassists, but I'm sure we could all learn something from transcribing some of your solos! Not for the fainthearted.

I have a neat little philosophy that I tell in my interviews or at clinics; If you love, say, Jaco Pastorius, don't imitate him. Imitate the guys that he imitated.That's how he learned in the first place.

 

[JeffBerlin]

+1! I transcribed Manos di Piedra from Pump It and La Festival off of Ernie Krivda's SATANIC LP for Inner City. One of my students transcribed the version of Tears in Heaven off of Taking Notes and another student performed it in his Senior Recital. I've also had students perform Joe Frazier and Bach (both from Pump It!) for Junior and Senior Recitals. In the literature of the Electric Bass, these are some of the Bach Cello Suites IMHO.

Try transcribing the guys that I transcribed. This is how I learned to play the way that I do. My solos work for bass guitar. Keith jarrett will blow your mind and make you stretch like you've never stretched before.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Sorry, but there is no mention of Gene in that post by me. Genes name is mentioned at the start in the quote, but not by me, my reference is about the preception of the industry in general as noted in the last paragraph of the quote.

Maybe that was your intention, but I think he's talking about the "thumbs down" icon you placed on your post. Clearly visible under your user name and caption in post #625. It makes it look like you're disagreeing with the entire quote.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Try transcribing the guys that I transcribed. This is how I learned to play the way that I do. My solos work for bass guitar. Keith jarrett will blow your mind and make you stretch like you've never stretched before.

+1 to that. I've got a pile of Jarrett transcriptions from the old Spaces solos book and I've done a few myself.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Maybe that was your intention, but I think he's talking about the "thumbs down" icon you placed on your post. Clearly visible under your user name and caption in post #625. It makes it look like you're disagreeing with the entire quote.

LOL i'm with you now i never noticed that or even know how i done it. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the heads up, so what did i hit to do it, and is there a thumbs up one to go with it?.

 

[PhatBasstard]

...so what did i hit to do it, and is there a thumbs up one to go with it?.

Those are down below the text box when you reply. You may have just hit it accidentally. Yes, as you can see in this post, there is a "thumbs up" also.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Those are down below the text box when you reply. You may have just hit it accidentally. Yes, as you can see in this post, there is a "thumbs up" also.

LOL got you, thanks and again sorry for the confusion.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Try transcribing the guys that I transcribed. This is how I learned to play the way that I do. My solos work for bass guitar. Keith jarrett will blow your mind and make you stretch like you've never stretched before.

I know from observation you enjoy Pat Martino, Sonny Stitt, Dave Leibman and Keith Jarrett. Who are some other faves?

 

[Roy Vogt]

The one thing I do get from studying you and other bassists are their thought processes. Jaco uses major pentatonic scales off of the Root, 5th and 9th of major 7 +11 chords for example. He probably copped that from Herbie Hancock, but it's nice to know how he thinks in this case.
Your early 80s work is a total vindication of studying Chord Studies for Trombone, from what I can see. Manos de Piedra and the Joe Frazier soli lines are chock full of these approaches.
Don't sell your solo voice short at all. You are in a book called Great Moments in Jazz published at one point by Sher Music, along with Brecker, McLaughlin, Coltrane, Parker, et. al.

 

[JeffBerlin]

The one thing I do get from studying you and other bassists are their thought processes. Jaco uses major pentatonic scales off of the Root, 5th and 9th of major 7 +11 chords for example. He probably copped that from Herbie Hancock, but it's nice to know how he thinks in this case.
Your early 80s work is a total vindication of studying Chord Studies for Trombone, from what I can see. Manos de Piedra and the Joe Frazier soli lines are chock full of these approaches.
Don't sell your solo voice short at all. You are in a book called Great Moments in Jazz published at one point by Sher Music, along with Brecker, McLaughlin, Coltrane, Parker, et. al.

Jaco was THE total new voice on the electric bass. But, direct improvization wasn't one of the skills that he developed. He couldn't improvize very well, but he could play the heck out of music that he rehearsed. He had a repertoir of licks and approaches that fell directly into his style that changed everything for bass players. But improvization wasn't his cup of tea except to vary some of those licks that he taught to himself back in Florida in the early 1970's.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Jaco was THE total new voice on the electric bass. But, direct improvization wasn't one of the skills that he developed. He couldn't improvize very well, but he could play the heck out of music that he rehearsed. He had a repertoir of licks and approaches that fell directly into his style that changed everything for bass players. But improvization wasn't his cup of tea except to vary some of those licks that he taught to himself back in Florida in the early 1970's.

You're right, Jeff. Havona is totally composed and constructed bit by bit. I think Donna Lee was as well. Of course, I've heard the Pat Metheny trio bootlegs that are floating around where he's playing with Bob Moses and Pat and they are playing All the Things You Are and you can see where he's going with vocabulary.
Those pentatonic reharmonizations are things I found in Ray Ricker's old book, Pentatonic Scales for Jazz Improvisation where they're demonstrated in solos by Chick Corea, Joe Farrell, and Herbie Hancock. It is really refreshing to see how Jaco spun those as well.
Since I'm teaching at a University where a student can graduate with a performance degree in Commercial Music on Electric Bass, I need to have specific and measurable repertoire for this instrument. I think your tunes (and Jaco's, Victor's, and John Pattitucci's for that matter) are perfect in that regard so we use them as such. If a student performs them in his Junior or Senior Recital, know that they are also playing material from the Great American Songbook that demonstrates their proficiency at soloing through chord changes. It doesn't matter if they never solo again after graduating-that harmonic awareness can't help but help whether they're playing Country, CCM, Rock or Jazz. Some of my alumni are playing with Michael W. Smith, Lady Antebellum, Billy Currington, and a wide variety of Nashville touring acts. They don't play a lick of Bebop on their gigs, but I've never had anyone come back to me and tell me studying it was a waste of their time.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

but I've never had anyone come back to me and tell me studying it was a waste of their time.

+1 And that's a truth that i encounter and hear all the time.