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Jeff Berlin "similar" to Jaco?

Harper

Harper

Nov 10, 2001
1,262
2,231
#1
Now we all know that Wikipedia isn't the final authority on such matters, but I was surprised to see that the second sentence in Jeff Berlin's biography states "Jeff Berlin's bass playing is somewhat similar to that of Jaco Pastorius".

I think that sells Berlin short, to be honest. They are/were both electric bassists playing jazz, but beyond that?
 
#2
It probably does sell Berlin short...they are contemporaries, so it's not very cool to suggest that one influenced the other since they were both doing their thing concurrently.
I assume Wiki thinks Jaco has more name recognition than Berlin...so, it gives someone a general idea of Berlin's vibe.
For sure, Wiki wouldn't say "Jeff Berlin's bass playing is somewhat similar to that of Stanley Clarke".
...does Wiki say "Wooten is similar to Stanley Clarke"?

That said, I do hear some similarities between Jaco/Berlin.
Berlin's playing (on a fretted bass) on the Spice Of Life album...1st time I heard it, I thought it was very Jaco-esque. Could be because at the time, I had heard much more Jaco vs. Berlin...so my reference point started at Jaco.
 
#3
Most of the readers of wiki are not musicians or bass players. Maybe even the writer Of that article is not a bass player too. For them their playing can be similar.

Jeff's style change over time, and his early works is more similar to the style of Jaco. He even played fretless for a short while and you can heard that on YouTube. He was playing Bluesette with Toots... His playing now is less 'raw' and very refine that he outline the changes very well.

I do think they have some similarities, their career start at the same period and they are both pioneers of solo bass. They are at the more old school style of solo bass playing as Stanley, Marcus, victor, Jeff andrews, Dario Deidda etc
 
#4
JimK said:
It probably does sell Berlin short...they are contemporaries, so it's not very cool to suggest that one influenced the other since they were both doing their thing concurrently.
I assume Wiki thinks Jaco has more name recognition than Berlin...so, it gives someone a general idea of Berlin's vibe.
For sure, Wiki wouldn't say "Jeff Berlin's bass playing is somewhat similar to that of Stanley Clarke".
...does Wiki say "Wooten is similar to Stanley Clarke"?

That said, I do hear some similarities between Jaco/Berlin.
Berlin's playing (on a fretted bass) on the Spice Of Life album...1st time I heard it, I thought it was very Jaco-esque. Could be because at the time, I had heard much more Jaco vs. Berlin...so my reference point started at Jaco.
Click to expand...

You saying that contemporaries don't influence one another?
And that it is 'not cool' to point out when an influence is noticeable to some listeners?
If you are, I disagree:)
 
#6
Ed certainly has a valid analogy. Other analogies would be Monk to Herbie Nichols or Herbie Hancock to Chick Corea. On the surface those players may sound similar but if you study their playing those similarities will fall away.

Tonally Jeff & Jaco are certainly similar, but their path to that sound was convergent rather than one being an influence on the other.

Their playing styles & approaches are not in any way similar. Jeff's style is more based on melody and harmony, recall he started as a classical violinist. Jaco is more groove and drum based, drums being his first primary instrument & R&B his musical source.

Jaco referred to Jeff as the Paganini of bass IIRC.
 
#8
I simply don't trust Wikipedia, there is always so much bad info there. Just use your ears, and not youtube vids of Jaco past his prime either. Both are monster pioneers of our chosen instrument, and are in classes all onto themselves.
 
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#11
#16
i think jaco became known for (and to the best of my knowledge originated) a sound that, in a lot of musical situations, just really works. i don't think its possible to play in that style of song and not at least partially sound like jaco if one is trying to get an overall sound that is as good as possible.
 
#17
:cool:

Having grown up in this time frame.
Jaco Jeff, Stanley, Percy Jones, Mick Karn, Doug Ranch, Ect.
It was a different era, no internet, no youtube.
Just, dare I say word of mouth.
Everyone influenced everyone else.
Early Jeff sounded a little like Jaco how could he not.
 
#19
JimK said:
...rumor has it that Newton, upon meeting Leibniz for the 1st time, said "...hey, you integrate AND differentiate just like me".
Click to expand...

LOL that must have been before Newton started to use his influence to ruin Leibniz. The 'shoulders of giants' comments was Newton joking about Leibniz's shortness:mad:. I'm not knocking Newton but he was known to have no sense of humour.
 
#20
cnltb said:
You saying that contemporaries don't influence one another?
And that it is 'not cool' to point out when an influence is noticeable to some listeners?
If you are, I disagree:)
Click to expand...
Yeah, it came off like that.
I have been to a couple of Berlin clinics...used to read his Workshop columns in Guitar Player, read his posts here at TalkBass, etc.
I think what I meant was certain players would not like to be mentioned as a 'disciple' of someone that is a contemporary.
No doubt, other players could care less...for example, I don't think Chuck Rainey minds being compared to Jamerson.
 

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