Jaco and Berlin are two worlds I think. When I saw the Wikipedia article, I was really astonished because all these times I never tought of a possible ressemblance between Jaco and Jeff. The only connection I could make is the fact that they make big use of the higher pickup wich gives them a treblier and higher bass sound.
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Jeff Berlin "similar" to Jaco?
- Thread starter Harper
- Start date
IMHO, they are not two worlds apart...both hit the scene around the mid-'70s...both have a Funk & Bebop thing goin' on...both have a very good understanding of harmony...both had the ability to pull off difficult solo pieces "Continuum" & "Dixie") for bass...both had Bass anthems ("Teen Town" & "Joe Frazier"), as you mentioned, both liked their Bridge pickup...both had attitude & a big ego,
...etc.
It's been awhile, but IIRC, Berlin's playing on Spice Of Life really impressed me as Jaco-esque.
Differences I recall from that time frame-
To me, Berlin was more clinical...Jaco was more feel. Berlin seemed to play with more "Rock" guys...Jaco with more "Jazz" guys.
And Jaco's compositions, IMO, were stronger.
For Ss & Gs...I wiki'd the "other Jeff"...Jeff Andrews (more like Jaco than Berlin, right?)
No entry for Mr. Andrews.
That's a shame...or maybe he's just lucky.
I've always thought Berlin sounded more classical in his playing probably from his violin training, and Jaco had more of a R&B groove to his canon. I dig both players, just different feels. I also think that if Jaco's mental illness didn't get out of control we would be talking about Jaco the composer, and that would be more of his legacy too.
I saw both of them in small clubs during the glory years (late 1970s), and conversed with both of them. (And got to know Jaco a bit over the next couple of years.)
To me, Jaco was more of an innovator, with an incredibly original vision and idea of how to get sounds of the instrument, etc., but Jeff was (is) more of a dedicated player.
I saw Jeff improvise a solo on the standard, "Joy Spring", that went on for about five minutes and showed absolute mastery of bop harmony, development, and of, course, ridiculously fluid horn-like chops. He was sitting down with a copy of The Real Book on his lap, open to that page. NO other electric bassist at the time could have approached that.
Jeff has been an obsessive practicer for decades, while Jaco freely admitted that he put in about one year of intense practice (in 1971, if I recall correctly).
As far as the tone, I agree with the person who said that Jaco pretty much showed everyone the way, with his bridge pickup thing. It just lets the instrument "speak" so much easier.
After I was first exposed to Jaco, I had the reaction that people had of Hendrix: "What planet is this coming from, and how can I begin to understand that?" After that evening of Jeff Berlin and "Joy Spring", my reaction was, "I've gotta PRACTICE!" To me, that's the difference between them.
To me, Jaco was more of an innovator, with an incredibly original vision and idea of how to get sounds of the instrument, etc., but Jeff was (is) more of a dedicated player.
I saw Jeff improvise a solo on the standard, "Joy Spring", that went on for about five minutes and showed absolute mastery of bop harmony, development, and of, course, ridiculously fluid horn-like chops. He was sitting down with a copy of The Real Book on his lap, open to that page. NO other electric bassist at the time could have approached that.
Jeff has been an obsessive practicer for decades, while Jaco freely admitted that he put in about one year of intense practice (in 1971, if I recall correctly).
As far as the tone, I agree with the person who said that Jaco pretty much showed everyone the way, with his bridge pickup thing. It just lets the instrument "speak" so much easier.
After I was first exposed to Jaco, I had the reaction that people had of Hendrix: "What planet is this coming from, and how can I begin to understand that?" After that evening of Jeff Berlin and "Joy Spring", my reaction was, "I've gotta PRACTICE!" To me, that's the difference between them.
dougjwray said:
I adore them both and always interested to listen their story. I have even studied with Jeff but he seldom talked about his past.
Thanks!
What I don't get is how simply saying he's 'somewhat similar' to Jaco necessarily leads one to conclude the writer is inferring influence, much less being his 'disciple' in any way. To me all he's saying is they sound similar (to him) - period.
As for learning music - I agree with sentiments expressed by both Berlin and Marcus. It's ALWAYS a plus to add theory, sight reading etc to your arsenal, no matter how naturally talented you are, or how many very successful artists got by without it.
As for learning music - I agree with sentiments expressed by both Berlin and Marcus. It's ALWAYS a plus to add theory, sight reading etc to your arsenal, no matter how naturally talented you are, or how many very successful artists got by without it.
Roy Vogt
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ggoat!!: Now, THAT's a troll! I won't play.
The Wikipedia article is primarily classifying them according to tone, sound and the Jazz Fusion 70s style. They play distinctly different vocabularies. Jaco uses a lot of pentatonic scales off the root, 5th and 9th of the chord to get upper extensions. Jeff utilizes chord tones and chromatic approach tones for the most part. I actually dealt with this in my Bass Clinic at Corner Music. It's a little long to sit through, but if you scroll you can find it.
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The Wikipedia article is primarily classifying them according to tone, sound and the Jazz Fusion 70s style. They play distinctly different vocabularies. Jaco uses a lot of pentatonic scales off the root, 5th and 9th of the chord to get upper extensions. Jeff utilizes chord tones and chromatic approach tones for the most part. I actually dealt with this in my Bass Clinic at Corner Music. It's a little long to sit through, but if you scroll you can find it.
Invalid Link Removed
I saw a very old video of Berlin and Jaco playing together and they were very close in style ... but I think we all know Jaco better just because he somewhat created that fretless sound while Berlin didn't have that little plus.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
Just watched the whole thing. Phenomenal. You really took what could have been "mysterious" things and broke them down very simply. I got a lot out of it.
I just did a one week with Jeff back in April, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I will say that Jeff truly does care about musical improvement for everyone, and shares very freely. He is also a hell of a funny guy!
Jaco is famous for his staccato, clearly subdivided notes,
Jeff for his legato.
so, to my ears they're totally different
btw ... i prefere staccato
Jeff for his legato.
so, to my ears they're totally different
btw ... i prefere staccato
LOL that must have been before Newton started to use his influence to ruin Leibniz. The 'shoulders of giants' comments was Newton joking about Leibniz's shortness. I'm not knocking Newton but he was known to have no sense of humour.
History said that both get the idea from Isaac Barrow, Newtow's teacher who Leibniz visit in the 1660's.
I know that Jeff love Jaco and he did not hear Jaco music in respect. He did not want to sound like Jaco. For Jeff fretless bass has a name on it, Jaco.
Not sure why people make personal attacks?
You like a bass player because is a good guy? or a bad guy? or your impression of his character is not good therefore his playing gets diminished?
I wonder why people use that to produce a judgement,specially in a thread that goes to the playing,and not their personality.
With that said,they were both influential to each other in my view (and to all of us,of course),I can not believe Berlin not hearing Weather Report records,and cannot believe jaco not hearing Bill Bruford records.
And hearing those bands,make you want to pick up EVERYTHING this guys do,regarding technique and harmony.
You cannot escape from the feeling of "how small I am" when facing the fact that they are/were much more than virtuouso,they actually leave a legacy.
They changed bass in ways nobody has done yet.
Who the hell cares how they were personally and how this make you dislike or like a player?
I do not understand.
You like a bass player because is a good guy? or a bad guy? or your impression of his character is not good therefore his playing gets diminished?
I wonder why people use that to produce a judgement,specially in a thread that goes to the playing,and not their personality.
With that said,they were both influential to each other in my view (and to all of us,of course),I can not believe Berlin not hearing Weather Report records,and cannot believe jaco not hearing Bill Bruford records.
And hearing those bands,make you want to pick up EVERYTHING this guys do,regarding technique and harmony.
You cannot escape from the feeling of "how small I am" when facing the fact that they are/were much more than virtuouso,they actually leave a legacy.
They changed bass in ways nobody has done yet.
Who the hell cares how they were personally and how this make you dislike or like a player?
I do not understand.
I read him saying that he don't hear Jaco music in respect because he don't want tyo sound like him. He record Invitation in one of his album, that the reason I know what he say.
I think you might be judging Bach on the way some of his music looks on paper, rather than how it should actually sound.
