Jimi Hendrix and black culture.

[MakiSupaStar]

Banyan does a great cover of it too. Mike Watt on bass, Stephen Perkins on drums.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

This is pretty good too.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks, Brad...I thouight I was the only one that didn't dig "Maggot Brain".
(that only partially makes up for your Hendrix/Carrot Top analogy...which almost made me puke).

It wasn't offered as a head to head analogy. The bigger issue was that he's a White guy who isn't exactly typical of White people... so shouldn't White people dig him?

I have a Guitar Player mag from yesteryear & Vernon Reid has a response/theory about this topic...if I can find it, I'll post a synopsis.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

This is pretty good too.

 

[Infernal Affair]

That's true, I guess. As a motif on T-shirts, Marley is more or less a pro-cannabis "Legalize it" statement. Jimi was no Rastafarian, and cannot be iconized for that cause.

Case in point. Peter Tosh was way more a proponent of that statement ("Legalize It" is one of his most famous songs), was one of the original Wailers along with Marley, and was a pretty outspoken dude. He was also very active in political rights. Yet many people have never heard of him. Some might think it's because of a lot of controversial statements he's said, but really that didn't stop Malcolm X from being famous.

Sure I'm digressing from the subject. But sometimes it just happens to be random chance makes something or someone more famous. Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" became more popular than it ever was thanks to Wayne's World, for example. People have a hard time not associating the two now. There are several logical reasons why Jimi never got famous with Black culture, but you never know. Maybe ten years from now, after mainstream hip hop music has reached the pinnacle of how much more ridiculously boring they can make it, it'll be cool for Black youth to like rock music and Hendrix. Maybe all it takes is putting some of his songs in a movie marketed towards inner city Black people, or a documentary focusing on Jimi with interviews by famous contemporary hip hop artists and funk or soul musicians.

Hendrix is pretty popular among the Black dudes I know, but they are all musicians and older. They were affected by his music directly. It's just something that hasn't carried on to future generations for whatever reason. OJ and R Kelly are passing fads. Even though many outspoken members of the Black community defended them vehemently, as more time passes more people tend to shrink away at the mere mention of their names.

 

[JimK]

It wasn't offered as a head to head analogy. The bigger issue was that he's a White guy who isn't exactly typical of White people... so shouldn't White people dig him?

...like Chris said-
"Because he's a dumb ass"?
Hendrix pretty much goes down in history as an original/innovator, etc. IMO, maybe should have selected someone in the same league...maybe Charles Ives?

I did find the Vernon Reid GP issue...NOT the one I was thinking about although he mentions stereotypes in the industry (such as Guitar Player mag never including Ernie Isley as a candidate for "Best Rock Guitar Player" & how "Black" radio stations expect R&B & little else, etc.)
He did mention it's the Blues that ties Coltrane to Ornette to The Temptations to Hendrix, etc.

 

[Brad Johnson]

...like Chris said-
"Because he's a dumb ass"?
Hendrix pretty much goes down in history as an original/innovator, etc. IMO, maybe should have selected someone in the same league...maybe Charles Ives?

Again, my choice was based on the mildly absurd notion that people not liking other people of the same ethnicity was a quandry. An absurd choice for that notion, basically. Granted, I could've just asked why ever White person wasn't a fan of every White performer. Imagine that can of worms.

I did find the Vernon Reid GP issue...NOT the one I was thinking about although he mentions stereotypes in the industry (such as Guitar Player mag never including Ernie Isley as a candidate for "Best Rock Guitar Player" & how "Black" radio stations expect R&B & little else, etc.)
He did mention it's the Blues that ties Coltrane to Ornette to The Temptations to Hendrix, etc.

To many open mic house band gigs have killed the Blues for me.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Case in point. Peter Tosh was way more a proponent of that statement ("Legalize It" is one of his most famous songs), was one of the original Wailers along with Marley, and was a pretty outspoken dude. He was also very active in political rights. Yet many people have never heard of him. Some might think it's because of a lot of controversial statements he's said, but really that didn't stop Malcolm X from being famous.

Might've been something as simple as the difference in their looks.

Sure I'm digressing from the subject. But sometimes it just happens to be random chance makes something or someone more famous. Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" became more popular than it ever was thanks to Wayne's World, for example. People have a hard time not associating the two now. There are several logical reasons why Jimi never got famous with Black culture, but you never know. Maybe ten years from now, after mainstream hip hop music has reached the pinnacle of how much more ridiculously boring they can make it, it'll be cool for Black youth to like rock music and Hendrix. Maybe all it takes is putting some of his songs in a movie marketed towards inner city Black people, or a documentary focusing on Jimi with interviews by famous contemporary hip hop artists and funk or soul musicians.

Bohemian Rhapsody was already HUGE. Maybe many WW fans already heard it?

And it's already cool for Black kids to like whatever they want to like. At least it is around here. As far as marketing, I doubt that would really make a difference.

I know the Chappelle episode w/John Mayer was kind of a goof but I can honestly say listening to someone wailing nonstop on a guitar for me is pretty boring (which is not what Mayer does). I guess that goes against another popular stereotype... I am not a frustrated guitar player. Most of the folks I've seen do that can't play rhythm guitar. I'd much rather hear rhythym guitar.

Hendrix is pretty popular among the Black dudes I know, but they are all musicians and older. They were affected by his music directly. It's just something that hasn't carried on to future generations for whatever reason. OJ and R Kelly are passing fads. Even though many outspoken members of the Black community defended them vehemently, as more time passes more people tend to shrink away at the mere mention of their names.

That's interesting. Who is still talking about OJ?


The older musicians I know who are into Hendrix are guitarists. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Infernal Affair]

Bohemian Rhapsody was already HUGE. Maybe many WW fans already heard it?

I agree that it was a popular song. I mean, hey, it's Queen, which was a huge band to begin with... in the 70s and early 80s. "Bohemian Rhapsody" became a pop culture phenomenon with Waynes World and brought Queen a new audience. I can assure you that the 13 year olds I mentor to wouldn't have known that song otherwise. It opened the floodgates for my generation when the movie came out. People that don't normally listen to 70s rock know it.

And it's already cool for Black kids to like whatever they want to like. At least it is around here. As far as marketing, I doubt that would really make a difference.

Never said it wasn't. It's cool here, too, for kids of any race or culture to like what they like. But don't underestimate the power of marketing and money, and that applies to everyone including Black kids. Many Top 40 radio artists thrive more on marketing than talent. You pitch someone the right way and with the right amount of luck they're famous.

I know the Chappelle episode w/John Mayer was kind of a goof but I can honestly say listening to someone wailing nonstop on a guitar for me is pretty boring (which is not what Mayer does). I guess that goes against another popular stereotype... I am not a frustrated guitar player. Most of the folks I've seen do that can't play rhythm guitar. I'd much rather hear rhythymn guitar.

I agree with ya man. I love guitar wank fests, but good rhythm guitar wins out every time and makes the band and song shine, not just a single player.

That's interesting. Who is still talking about OJ?

Nobody now, thank goodness.

The older musicians I know who are into Hendrix are guitarists. Coincidence? I think not.

Yeah. The dudes I know are guitarists as well....

 

[Brad Johnson]

 

[jmarcus2]

I'll confess, I was a young very young hendrix fan at the time of his death. I remember seeing a TV news story on Jimi when I was about eight or nine, and I remember reading an article on him in either Ebony or Sepia around that time too. Between eight and twelve, I was a serious wanna be guitard who thought rock lead guitar was the ultimate, so naturally I loved Hendrix. That was why I loved early Funkadelic like Maggot Brain too.

Oh man! My guitar player turned me onto Maggot Brain back then! What a story behind that track.

 

[txbasschik]

We're veering even further off-topic, but that technique is called "melisma". Pretty good article about it here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6791133

Good article! I learned something...I didn't know there was a name for that style, or its origins.

It certainly is overused/abused. So many of these new R&B/pop songs have so much of it, they're just a barrage of notes. Borrrring!

We call it "gingerbread". If you build a house with poor structure, but a lot of gingerbread trim, it will look pretty, but will fall down.

One of my friends' daughters can sing, and she abuses melisma a *lot*. I keep telling her..."Honey, knock some of the gingerbread off that house! I can't even tell what you're singing, with all those ornaments hanging off the song!"

Cherie

 

[AlphaMale]

This subject may very well be too hot for TB, but I thought I'd ask this question to a bunch of fellow musicians to see if I can gain a bit of perspective I would not have otherwise gained.

I have often wondered why it appears that mainstream black culture does not embrace Jimi Hendrix.

Admittedly, I'm a white dude, and although I appreciate many aspects of what could be seen as a collective black culture, I am not immersed in it. Yet, as a musician, I have often wondered why I don't see black Americans embracing Jimi (or many other iconic black musicians, for that matter). I see young white kids wearing Hendrix shirts and listening to his music constantly, yet I have never seen a young black man wearing one nor listening to his music. Hendrix is revered as a god by many, yet for some reason he seems conspicuously absent from the pantheon of black heroes. Martin Luther King, Tupac, Muhammad Ali, Malcom X - I see that these men are revered by black people of all ages, and they are revered for good reason. Where is Jimi?

I have thought that perhaps it's because Jimi played "white" music... but then I thought of how much Eminem has been accepted into "black" music. Could it be as simple as Dave Chappelle's theory that black people just don't like guitars? It seems like a great many black musicians, such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Chuck Berry, Robert Johnson, Living Colour, etc. are embraced by white audiences much more so than black audiences. What gives?

Maybe I'm not seeing the whole situation clearly, as I am on one side of the color line and can only see things from my own perspective. Perhaps Snoop Dogg really does jam out to Hendrix (or maybe even James Taylor when nobody is looking). Maybe this is strictly an American thing - or maybe even just a Dirty South thing. Whatever the truth is, I'm not really grasping it.

Opinions?

It's not About Race.
It's about hte music. Most black people listen to Commercial rap ********. Most white people listen to Rock. Most jazz and rock fans are white. Thats why they aren't so excepted. Thanks for posting this. I hate tupac t-shirts now. And no, I'm not white. I'm black.

 

[ArchDuke]

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why so many are so quick to automatically dismiss rap music as something inferior to other styles of music. BY generalizing that all rap is like the stuff played on the radio, you ignore the artists that are still making real music today, like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Public Enemy, The Roots, MF Doom, Madlib, De La Soul, Kool Keith, and even guys like Wu-Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and Snoop Dogg before they got way too commercial. Generalizing rap is like saying that all rock groups are just like Fall Out Boy, or that all Jazz artists are like Kenny G.

ON the topic of Hendrix, I think that in terms of Black artists many would cite Hendrix as an influence, while with the black youth Hendrix and most rock artists aren't as relatable because instruments aren't emphasized as much in modern African-American pop (rap or r&b). The closest that instruments come into play in most rap videos are tunrtables and a mic, so there can't be much of a desire to pick up an instrument by a musician who played 40 years ago. This obviously isn't how I feel, as a black bassist I hold a lot of respect for Hendrix who went from playing classic soul to rocking harder than any white artist at the time.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

And no, I'm not white. I'm black.

Doesn't mean you can't buy into a stereotype also.

 

[Jared Lash]

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why so many are so quick to automatically dismiss rap music as something inferior to other styles of music. BY generalizing that all rap is like the stuff played on the radio, you ignore the artists that are still making real music today, like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Public Enemy, The Roots, MF Doom, Madlib, De La Soul, Kool Keith, and even guys like Wu-Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and Snoop Dogg before they got way too commercial.

Not to ignore your larger points, but you lost me a bit with the bolded sentence. Dr. Dre was nothing if not commercial from the beginning. His goal from the start was to move units, not to make statements. Also, I'd add Blackalicious, A Tribe Called Quest, Brother Ali, Hieroglyphics and many others to your list.

Doesn't mean you can't buy into a stereotype also.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why so many are so quick to automatically dismiss rap music as something inferior to other styles of music. BY generalizing that all rap is like the stuff played on the radio, you ignore the artists that are still making real music today, like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Public Enemy, The Roots, MF Doom, Madlib, De La Soul, Kool Keith, and even guys like Wu-Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and Snoop Dogg before they got way too commercial. Generalizing rap is like saying that all rock groups are just like Fall Out Boy, or that all Jazz artists are like Kenny G.

Because generalizing is far easier than actually dealing with what's out there.

ON the topic of Hendrix, I think that in terms of Black artists many would cite Hendrix as an influence, while with the black youth Hendrix and most rock artists aren't as relatable because instruments aren't emphasized as much in modern African-American pop (rap or r&b). The closest that instruments come into play in most rap videos are tunrtables and a mic, so there can't be much of a desire to pick up an instrument by a musician who played 40 years ago. This obviously isn't how I feel, as a black bassist I hold a lot of respect for Hendrix who went from playing classic soul to rocking harder than any white artist at the time.

And that generalization, while easy to make, isn't necessarily accurate. The instruments (or lack thereof) in a video aren't representative of the instruments that may have been used to make the audio for it.

It's been nice to see, at least in the DC area, a lot of interest in being able to play by younger people. That tends to be especially strong in Hip Hop and the church. Looks like Outkast, the Roots, contemporary Gospel, etc. all had a nice influence on them.

 

[ArchDuke]

Well, I may have went too far with Dr. Dre and Snoop, but I still see The Chronic and Doggystyle as fairly revolutionary in terms of production, obvious P-funk sampling, and starting the whole G-Funk style. This in turn probably led to most of the commercial rap that is heard nowadays, but back then it was pretty fresh. And I stay true to my statement that Jay-Z started off well with the classic Reasonable Doubt, even if it was in the vein of Raekwon's Only Built for Cuban Linx.

BTW, I should of included A Tribe Called Quest and other Native Tongues rappers like Black Sheep. Low End Theory was one of the first albums that helped me to truly appreciate rap music when I thought that it was garbage.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Well, I may have went too far with Dr. Dre and Snoop, but I still see The Chronic and Doggystyle as fairly revolutionary in terms of production, obvious P-funk sampling, and starting the whole G-Funk style.

I don't think those recording were revolutionary at all, they just played of what was familiar. Most who listened to those recordings were pulled in by the underlying music(the sampled p-funk)that most had already heard. And exactly how many of these G-Funk CD's were recorded(I would like to say a handful)?

The revolution must have went over my head

 

[peaveyuser]

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why so many are so quick to automatically dismiss rap music as something inferior to other styles of music. BY generalizing that all rap is like the stuff played on the radio, you ignore the artists that are still making real music today, like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Public Enemy, The Roots, MF Doom, Madlib, De La Soul, Kool Keith, and even guys like Wu-Tang Clan, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and Snoop Dogg before they got way too commercial. Generalizing rap is like saying that all rock groups are just like Fall Out Boy, or that all Jazz artists are like Kenny G.

+1 I don't listen to rap (can't stand hearing it) but I can respect some as music.

I do like rappers delight for that killer bassline and "bring the noise" by Public enemy and Anthrax.



that was good and not "nu metal" crap it was old school rap with old school thrash.