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Jimi Hendrix and black culture.

#81
Brad Johnson said:
This thread just begs the obvious question: Why should mainstream Black culture embrace Hendrix?
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I'm not one to say that anybody should embrace Hendrix, but what confuses me is the seeming lack to embrace him at all, when it appears (to an outsider) that the black community idolizes many heroes as a point of pride. As a white man, I see the black community almost claiming certain figures that represented them. This is why I mentioned Tupac, Muhammad Ali, etc. - not because of their stances towards civil rights or whatever, but because how the are apparently... well, for a lack of better word, "owned" by the black community.

Now, only for the sake of illustration, I'd like to bring up a few other notable black figures: R Kelly, Michael Jackson, and OJ Simpson. None of these characters are what I would call shining examples of humanity, nor are they representative of the black community any more than Hendrix, but I have found that black attitudes towards these men are similar to the "ownership" that I expressed above. When these men got in trouble, it seemed to me that many in the black community came forward to offer their support, and in a sense to protect them. I heard dialog on the news and on the streets by black people saying stuff along the lines "they are one of us", "we protect our own", etc., etc. I may be putting it badly - forgive me if I don't sound eloquent, and try to see the point I'm making here.

Why isn't Hendrix "claimed" then? Tupac, Bob Marley, etc., are icons within the black community - so much so you see them on t-shirts of black men and women everywhere, especially the young. Where's all the Hendrix shirts? Why isn't Hendrix an icon to black people in this sense?
 
#82
Dr. Cheese said:
More to the point, you wonder why Hendrix wasn't popular and two Black men old enough to know something about that period give you an answer, and you still keep looking for something else (not to say that Brad and I speak for all Black people, but I suspect we know a bit more about the culture than those outside of it.:D)
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respectfully, I'm not looking for something else... I just like to know each "corner" of the answer, not just the middle... if you get my drift.

BTW, no one said the black community "had" to embrace Hendrix, (although watching Billy Cox talk about it with sadness in Band Of Gypsy's did make me feel for Hendrix) as much as we whites don't have to embrace Eminem... although I'm extremely proud of what the somewhat overlooked Beasties did and admire Eminem for his impact in a music form not "owned" by him, and in music in general. Sorry, very clumsily worded.
 
#83
Benjamin Strange said:
I'm not one to say that anybody should embrace Hendrix, but what confuses me is the seeming lack to embrace him at all, when it appears (to an outsider) that the black community idolizes many heroes as a point of pride. As a white man, I see the black community almost claiming certain figures that represented them. This is why I mentioned Tupac, Muhammad Ali, etc. - not because of their stances towards civil rights or whatever, but because how the are apparently... well, for a lack of better word, "owned" by the black community.

Now, only for the sake of illustration, I'd like to bring up a few other notable black figures: R Kelly, Michael Jackson, and OJ Simpson. None of these characters are what I would call shining examples of humanity, nor are they representative of the black community any more than Hendrix, but I have found that black attitudes towards these men are similar to the "ownership" that I expressed above. When these men got in trouble, it seemed to me that many in the black community came forward to offer their support, and in a sense to protect them. I heard dialog on the news and on the streets by black people saying stuff along the lines "they are one of us", "we protect our own", etc., etc. I may be putting it badly - forgive me if I don't sound eloquent, and try to see the point I'm making here.

Why isn't Hendrix "claimed" then? Tupac, Bob Marley, etc., are icons within the black community - so much so you see them on t-shirts of black men and women everywhere, especially the young. Where's all the Hendrix shirts? Why isn't Hendrix an icon to black people in this sense?
Click to expand...

This question makes more sense to me. Hendrix played music that was geared to white audiences, and he was not and is not seen as someone who offered something to the community or represented it.

I think in sports, Tiger Woods somewhat fits that mold because he pointedly has said that he doesn't really see himself as Black, and he definitely has not made a consistent to effort to idnetify with the Black community as a whole. Black folks know who he is and are proud of him, but he does not ignite passion among most Black people. Compare him with the Williams Sisters, who also play a game that is not common among Blacks, and they are modern icons on the level of some of the historic figures you have mentioned, especially among young Black females.
 
#84
Dr. Cheese said:
I rarely black or mulatto (pardon the term) looking Brazilians playing metal. I may well be wrong. I am a long ways from an expert on Brazilian rock.

As for reggae, I have been talking about African American as opposed to Afro Caribbean music, although Reggae is good for blissed out hopping around and head bobbing.:D
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:D I enjoy me some reggae too.


As for the Brazilian Metal Scene.

Bands like Angra and Sepultura are HUGE over there and have quite a bit off metal recognition over here too.

Rock In Rio is a huge Concert in Brazil with a lot of metal bands, just look at Iron Maidens Show in Rio, it was intense!


And here is some Brazilian Stoner Metal:cool:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DSgpxMvo-ms

Into the Dust:bassist:

(really nice bass tone in this :eek:, heheh to all the bass snobs thats an Epiphone too)
 
#85
Benjamin Strange said:
I'm not one to say that anybody should embrace Hendrix, but what confuses me is the seeming lack to embrace him at all, when it appears (to an outsider) that the black community idolizes many heroes as a point of pride.
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But you ask why "don't they, the obvious response is why should they?
:)

Other than the fact that he's the same race, in your opinion, why should they? Why don't most White people embrace Carrot Top? Heck, maybe they do;)

What you continue to fail to see is what you don't "see", Benjamin. The seeming lack to embrace him is in your mind. I could name a ton of Black people that I know personally who are huge Hendrix fans. You don't know them so you assume they don't exist. One of the groups I work with, a trio, does a ton of Hendrix on a regular basis. Bear in mind the world goes much farther than your reach.

As a white man, I see the black community almost claiming certain figures that represented them. This is why I mentioned Tupac, Muhammad Ali, etc. - not because of their stances towards civil rights or whatever, but because how the are apparently... well, for a lack of better word, "owned" by the black community.
Click to expand...

You say that as if the two are mutually exclusive... they aren't. Ali was embraced because he was a Black man talking smack and backing it up during a time when Black men were regularly killed for doing the same. People notice that kind of stuff. I wouldn't put Tupac on that level but to some degree he was doing the same... and he was doing it in a musical form that was still growing at the time and shared some earmarks with early rock: most people didn't understand it and most of those people hated it:D. And then he died... I think we all know what that can do to a popular figure's status.

Now, only for the sake of illustration, I'd like to bring up a few other notable black figures: R Kelly, Michael Jackson, and OJ Simpson. None of these characters are what I would call shining examples of humanity, nor are they representative of the black community any more than Hendrix, but I have found that black attitudes towards these men are similar to the "ownership" that I expressed above. When these men got in trouble, it seemed to me that many in the black community came forward to offer their support, and in a sense to protect them. I heard dialog on the news and on the streets by black people saying stuff along the lines "they are one of us", "we protect our own", etc., etc. I may be putting it badly - forgive me if I don't sound eloquent, and try to see the point I'm making here.
Click to expand...

And to that I'd say that no offense, maybe you should get out more and check more sources. R Kelly is a joke. I don't know who you've seen embracing him, if you go by record sales, much like Tupac... Black people aren't the only ones supporting him financially. Michael Jackson and OJ? I've seen at least as many people who believe they're guilty as not. I've also seen the people who others love to ignore, the folks who point out how a system geared against Black people didn't get these two. On the flip side, were White people so pissed about OJ solely because of what he did or his race? Did they feel betrayed that one of the "good ones" went bad? I think so.
:D

Why isn't Hendrix "claimed" then? Tupac, Bob Marley, etc., are icons within the black community - so much so you see them on t-shirts of black men and women everywhere, especially the young. Where's all the Hendrix shirts? Why isn't Hendrix an icon to black people in this sense?
Click to expand...

I already explained Marley. Tupac died and he was extremely popular when he was alive. Other than being Black, what exactly is it that you continue to feel would make him relevant to Black people as a whole? I don't get it.

Prince is a huge devotee of Hendrix. Have Black people embraced him? Absolutely. So what's the difference between what he did and Hendrix? I think your answer lies in there.
 
#86
Dr. Cheese said:
This question makes more sense to me. Hendrix played music that was geared to white audiences, and he was not and is not seen as someone who offered something to the community or represented it.

I think in sports, Tiger Woods somewhat fits that mold because he pointedly has said that he doesn't really see himself as Black, and he definitely has not made a consistent to effort to idnetify with the Black community as a whole. Black folks know who he is and are proud of him, but he does not ignite passion among most Black people. Compare him with the Williams Sisters, who also play a game that is not common among Blacks, and they are modern icons on the level of some of the historic figures you have mentioned, especially among young Black females.
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I was thinking the same thing about Tiger.
 
#87
knowing only the teeny tiny part I know, and referring to what BC said in Band Of Gypsies, what's sad to me and sets Hendrix apart from those others mentioned, is that it would seem that he died thinking that he'd been shunned by his community, because he wanted to mean something to them, or at least he died while they had their backs to him... of course Billy Cox and the woman also interviewed in the movie who I can't remember that reiterated this point, could be full of it.

The words Lenny Kravitz says about the situation I remember being quite enlightening and again, quite sad...
 
#88
There's definitely too much made of the Band of Gypsies thing. It was a very short-lived project (less than a month), and there really is no evidence it was an attempt by Hendrix to reach any particular race. Billy Cox had been playing in Hendrix's band with Mitch Mitchell for several months after Noel Redding walked out and Hendrix had been calling that band 'Band of Gypsies'.

The initial gig was recorded to get out of a contract Hendrix had signed with a record company before he got famous, and Hendrix 'disbanded' the band after walking offstage half way through the sixth (?) gig. Hendrix then reformed the Experience with Mitch Mitchell and Billy Cox.

If I was in Buddy Miles' shoes at that point, I'd have called that "being sacked" or "depping while Mitch went home for Christmas".
 
#91
Dr. Cheese said:
More to the point, you wonder why Hendrix wasn't popular and two Black men old enough to know something about that period give you an answer, and you still keep looking for something else (not to say that Brad and I speak for all Black people, but I suspect we know a bit more about the culture than those outside of it.:D)
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With all due respect and your personal insight notwithstanding, Dr. Cheese, it has been frequently stated on this forum that two people's opinions aren't necessarily representative of a group. Benjamin's looking for/entertaining other possibilities shouldn't be taken as anything other than open-mindedness.

Mike
 
#93
I have a question for you guys. I do not listen to Black Urban Radio in the Detroit area, it makes my brain grate. And what passes for much of "R & B" today with a few exceptions (some of the Neo soul stuff), I suspect would make the real R & B artists throw up. My question is this, Do they play any of the old stuff? I mean would these kids know who Marvin Gaye was, if he wasn't sampled on some track about bitches and hos? Have they heard of Sam and Dave? Mavis Staples? Pleasure? Otis Reading? Smokey Robinson? James Jamerson? even Run DMC? It is my suspicion, gathered from a few of the teens and early twenties African Americans that I've met playing churches, that black radio (more so then AOR ) is much more out of touch with it's roots. Am I wrong? Is this a result of my lack of contact with the community? Dr., I suspect that being a college professor, you have a little more contact, your thoughts?
 
#94
burk48237 said:
I have a question for you guys. I do not listen to Black Urban Radio in the Detroit area, it makes my brain grate. And what passes for much of "R & B" today with a few exceptions (some of the Neo soul stuff), I suspect would make the real R & B artists throw up. My question is this, Do they play any of the old stuff? I mean would these kids know who Marvin Gaye was, if he wasn't sampled on some track about bitches and hos? Have they heard of Sam and Dave? Mavis Staples? Pleasure? Otis Reading? Smokey Robinson? James Jamerson? even Run DMC? It is my suspicion, gathered from a few of the teens and early twenties African Americans that I've met playing churches, that black radio (more so then AOR ) is much more out of touch with it's roots.
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You are pretty much on point.
 
#95
Spoiled Grape said:
Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Chuck Berry, Living Colour are all embraced by a small percentage of Americans. While a large percentage is probably familiar with their names, I doubt most Americans could name a song. Since blacks are still a minority in America, it only makes sense that the general black population isn't into jazz or music that isn't modern.

As far as white kids wearing Jimi Hendrix shirts, I think it more has to do with fashion than it has to do with music reverence. You can buy a Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, or Pink Floyd shirt at any department store now-a-days. White kids eat it up. Black fashion isn't the same.
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My 18 y.o. son wear his Hendrix t-shirt and puts up his Hendrix posters 'cause he loves the music. Truly. Lots of kids his age listen to music made by people my age or older.

Admittedly, his friends who dig Hendrix are white or Tejano. His black friends like underground, local hip-hop...as does he.

Cherie :)
 
#96
burk48237 said:
I have a question for you guys. I do not listen to Black Urban Radio in the Detroit area, it makes my brain grate. And what passes for much of "R & B" today with a few exceptions (some of the Neo soul stuff), I suspect would make the real R & B artists throw up. My question is this, Do they play any of the old stuff? I mean would these kids know who Marvin Gaye was, if he wasn't sampled on some track about bitches and hos? Have they heard of Sam and Dave? Mavis Staples? Pleasure? Otis Reading? Smokey Robinson? James Jamerson? even Run DMC? It is my suspicion, gathered from a few of the teens and early twenties African Americans that I've met playing churches, that black radio (more so then AOR ) is much more out of touch with it's roots. Am I wrong? Is this a result of my lack of contact with the community? Dr., I suspect that being a college professor, you have a little more contact, your thoughts?
Click to expand...

it would seem that there is an opening in the "classic R&B/Soul" market of Detroit radio... :)
 
#97
burk48237 said:
I have a question for you guys. I do not listen to Black Urban Radio in the Detroit area, it makes my brain grate. And what passes for much of "R & B" today with a few exceptions (some of the Neo soul stuff), I suspect would make the real R & B artists throw up. My question is this, Do they play any of the old stuff? I mean would these kids know who Marvin Gaye was, if he wasn't sampled on some track about bitches and hos? Have they heard of Sam and Dave? Mavis Staples? Pleasure? Otis Reading? Smokey Robinson? James Jamerson? even Run DMC? It is my suspicion, gathered from a few of the teens and early twenties African Americans that I've met playing churches, that black radio (more so then AOR ) is much more out of touch with it's roots. Am I wrong? Is this a result of my lack of contact with the community? Dr., I suspect that being a college professor, you have a little more contact, your thoughts?
Click to expand...

That's not my experience with radio in California or New York, but I don't know for sure. I would *guess* that it's true to some extent, just as I'd guess it is true for white kids not knowing about earlier music...I think that's always been the case, but don't consider myself an expert.

Marshall
 
#98
burk48237 said:
... And what passes for much of "R & B" today with a few exceptions (some of the Neo soul stuff), I suspect would make the real R & B artists throw up....
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Yeah -- they didn't try to cram in a whole octave where one pitch-bent note would have been just fine. That new style, made even more popular by those vocal gymnasts on American Idol, is unlistenable.
 
#99

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