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Jimi Hendrix and black culture.

Ike Turner is not a legend on par with Hendrix. Hendrix is an icon.

Ike Turner is indeed a legend and a great innovative contributer to the fabric of what some people do not want to give him credit for.

Hendrix even took note of Ike's original talent as a musician and entertainer.


There's many reasons why Hendrix is an icon and it's a great thing that his family took control over what is rightfully his.
 
This is basically what i think it is. As for me, I'm black, i live in a 94% black community, and most of the people i know are - guess what? - black. And normally when people find out my musical taste (fusion jazz, metal, and various other genres that are not seen as "black") the response is generally "Man, why you listen to that white sh*t." And normally I end up answering "I dunno." because I don't really know. I just like it.

Just curious, where do you encounter this and from who? I'm in Maryland too but apparently I don't live around as many ignorant people as you.

Matter of fact, I can't recall anyone asking me why I listen to anything. If anything, I've gotten positive comments because I'm not stuck in a box genre-wise and can play all sorts of music.

I think the reason behind the great increase in popularity of rap, which caused black disintrest in rock, which led to black people forgetting icons like Jimi is that when hip-hop first came out and began picking up speed, we saw it as something that was genuinely ours. Of course, many, many musical styles were originated by black people before then but hip-hop was the only one that gained much regonition as a creation of black people thanks to racism and all. After after that initial spark it was just "gravity" - more and more people began to like it becasue more and more people liked it.

A lot of Black people didn't listen to rock when Jimi was alive. This was long before rap. If anything, the increase in popularity in rap probably was due to the ability to create it without having to spend time learning to play an instrument. That doesn't mean it doesn't take just as long to get good at it, but learning how to do one thing vs. two to the same level will usually take less time. Early rappers probably worked cheaper than bands so that was a good deal for clubowners.


BTW Jazz, funk, R&B, Blues are all recognized by most people as creations of Black people.

Jimi was forgotten and replaced with people who traded their guitars for mics and riffing for freestyling. Early hip-hop (NWA, Public Enemy, The Fantastic 5) was cool but it has since evolved into rap (which i consider different), which is what all the parents are pissed about and, imo, for good reason, but that's another discussion.

You make it sound like there was a direct arc from Jimi to hip hop... there wasn't. Though there were early spoken word pioneers who are far more "forgotten" by people... if they were even known to beigin with. Groups like the Last Poets. But they were mainly spoken word and percussion. If they had rapped over the bassline to "Mother Popcorn"... who knows?
:D

What's funny though is that rock is becoming popular among black people now (and so is skateboarding thanks to Lupe Fiasco, but again, a discussion for another time). It started out with people wearing random band paraphenalia (not knowing anything about the artist) and i guess someone decided to actually listen to one of these bands and liked it. More people actually recognize Jimi now, lol. gotta love trends.

Probably got bored of the SOS. Many people experience that.
 
A lot of Black people didn't listen to rock when Jimi was alive. This was long before rap. If anything, the increase in popularity
Though there were early spoken word pioneers who are far more "forgotten" by people... if they were even known to beigin with. Groups like the Last Poets. But they were mainly spoken word and percussion. If they had rapped over the bassline to "Mother Popcorn"... who knows?
:D


:)
 
I have often wondered why it appears that mainstream black culture does not embrace Jimi Hendrix.

Admittedly, I'm a white dude, and although I appreciate many aspects of what could be seen as a collective black culture, I am not immersed in it. Yet, as a musician, I have often wondered why I don't see black Americans embracing Jimi (or many other iconic black musicians, for that matter). I see young white kids wearing Hendrix shirts and listening to his music constantly, yet I have never seen a young black man wearing one nor listening to his music. Hendrix is revered as a god by many, yet for some reason he seems conspicuously absent from the pantheon of black heroes. Martin Luther King, Tupac, Muhammad Ali, Malcom X - I see that these men are revered by black people of all ages, and they are revered for good reason. Where is Jimi?

I have thought that perhaps it's because Jimi played "white" music... but then I thought of how much Eminem has been accepted into "black" music. Could it be as simple as Dave Chappelle's theory that black people just don't like guitars? It seems like a great many black musicians, such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Chuck Berry, Robert Johnson, Living Colour, etc. are embraced by white audiences much more so than black audiences. What gives?
You've said a mouthful there -- and it might take a Masters Thesis to answer it all but I don't have the time to write and I know you wouldn't want to read it so here's the cliff notes veersion ..

I am Black and came of age in the 70's. There were a few Brothers in my (integrated) neighborhood who were into Hendrix but for the most part, we were into;

1) Music you could dance to
2) What was being played on Black radio at the time


While in most cases, these are the same thing, Hendrix was neither.

There's a deeper thing at play here (that has been written about by folks far more eloquent than I) that speaks to the racial aspect of popular music. Bottom line, a lot of it has to do with racist attitudes in the music industry from day one.
WAAAY back in the day, Black artists couldn't get top-40 airplay. What the industry did would be to take a Black song and have it re-recorded by a white group and play that. (This is well-documented, I'm just too lazy to look it up. Google the terms "Race music" and "radio.")

Lots of reasons for this ...

* Some economic (people in power wanted to get paid)
* Some sociological (All them nigras playing that Jungle music was too threatening to Lily-white culture)
* Some stupid (folks didn't "Get it.")

That's one of the factors that lead to the success of Motown -- Berry Gordy was smart enough to take Black music and "package" it with fresh, scrubbed, smiling faces that were mostly non-threatening. Don't get me wrong, I love Motown and Motown music but you have to understand how Berry worked his program.

Anyway -- I digress. By the 60's/70's, you now have music totally segregated on the radio by format based on race. Black stations played R&B/Soul, White stations played Rock and never the twain would their audiences meet. Hendrix' music did not get Black radio airplay because it didn't fit into the Black radio format. ergo, it never gained "Black mainstream" traction.

Don't get me wrong -- lots of Black people appreciated (and still do appreciate) Hendrix for his virtuosity but they weren't feeling it on the same level as Sly/George Clinton/Others.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a racial subtext to the music industry in this country that would take a Master's Thesis to wind through. Stuff like:

* Rock Rules/Disco Sucks
* Why MTV wouldn't play Black Music (until Michael Jackson/CBS basically blackmailed them into playing videos from "Thriller")
* Why Eminem was the first rapper to win an academy award
* The misogyny and filth in some Rap music (and by extension) why "Gangsta Rap" got so much traction.

Again, that's a post for another time.
 
When was Jimi Hendrix playing white music?

I dug out a quote by Miles Davis on Hendrix in response to another thread. In the same interview, Miles described Hendrix as sounding like a 'Hillbilly' when he played with Noel and Mitch.

Not that I consider Miles a spokesman for 'black culture' or anything, just throwing it out there. I could dig the full quote out... I strongly suspect this was one of those occasions when Miles was full of it.
 
Here it is...

I first met Jimi when his manager called up and wanted me to introduce
him to the way I was playing and putting my music together. Jimi liked
what I had done on Kind of Blue and some other stuff and wanted to add
more jazz elements to what he was doing. He liked the way Coltrane
played with all those other sheets of sound, and he played the guitar
in a similar way. Plus, he said that he heard the guitar voicing that
I used in the way I played the trumpet. So we started getting
together...


He was a real nice guy, quiet but intense, and was nothing like people
thought he was. He was just the opposite of the wild and crazy image
he presented on the stage. When we started getting together and
talking about music, I found out that he couldn't read music. Betty
(Mabry) had a party for him sometime in 1969 at my house on West 77th.
I couldn't be there because I had to be in the studio that night
recording, so I left some music for him to read and then we'd talk
about it later. (Some people wrote some **** that I didn't come to the
party for him because I didn't like having a party for a man in my
house. That's a lot of ********.)


When I called back home from the studio to speak to Jimi about the
music I had left him, I found out he didn't read music. There are a
lot of great musicians who don't read music - black and white - that I
have known and respected and played with. So I didn't think less of
Jimi because of that. Jimi was just a great, natural musician - self
taught. He would pick up things from whoever he was around, and he
picked up things quick. Once he heard it he really had it down. We
would be talking, and I would be telling him technical **** like,
"Jimi, you know, when you play the diminished chord..." I would see
this lost look come into his face and I would say, "Okay, okay, I
forgot." I would just play it for him on the piano or on the horn, and
he would get it faster than a mother****er. He had a natural ear for
hearing music. So I'd play different **** for him, show him that way.
Or I'd play him a record of mine or Trane's and explain to him what we
were doing. The he started incorporating things I told him into his
albums. It was great. He influenced me, and I influenced him, and
that's the way great music is always made. Everybody showing everybody
else something and then moving on from there.


But Jimi was also close to hillbilly, country music played by them
mountain white people. That's why he had those two English guys in his
band, because a lot of white English musicians liked that American
hillbilly music. The best he sounded to me was when he had Buddy Miles
on drums and Billy Cox on bass. Jimi was playing that Indian kind of
****, or he'd play those funny little melodies he doubled up on his
guitar. I loved it when he doubled up **** like that. He used to play
6/8 all the time when he was with them white English guys and that's
what made him sound like a hillbilly to me. Just that concept he was
doing with that. But when he started playing with Buddy and Billy in
the Band of Gypsys, I think he brought what he was doing all the way
out. But the record companies and white people liked him better when
he had the white guys in his band, just like a lot of white people
like to talk about me when I was doing the nonet thing - the Birth Of
The Cool thing, or when I did those other albums with Gil Evans or
Bill Evans because they always like to see white people up in black
****, so that they can say they had something to do with it. But Jimi
Hendrix came from the blues, like me. We understood each other right
away because of that. He was a great blues guitarist.


Edit: (the board software has censored some of Miles' more colorful language)
 
I dug out a quote by Miles Davis on Hendrix in response to another thread. In the same interview, Miles described Hendrix as sounding like a 'Hillbilly' when he played with Noel and Mitch.

Not that I consider Miles a spokesman for 'black culture' or anything, just throwing it out there. I could dig the full quote out... I strongly suspect this was one of those occasions when Miles was full of it.

Miles was influenced by Jimi. He was inspired by Jimi's use of the wah when he recorded "On The Corner" with a wah on his horn. In fact, they were jamming together and we're talking about doing an album together right before Jimi died. One of the best courses I took in school was the History of Miles Davis. Imagine walking into class with Jimi cranking over PA system. That was how we started our lesson one day. It was taught by James Newton, who is also a great player in his own right. So Miles might have said that about Jimi, but he had a lot of respect for Jimi because both of them had their roots in the blues.

EDIT: I didn't realize that above post got in before mine. A great read is Miles Davis's "Smiles". Pretty sure that's from that book.
 
Here it is...

... But the record companies and white people liked him better when he had the white guys in his band, just like a lot of white people like to talk about me when I was doing the nonet thing - the Birth Of The Cool thing, or when I did those other albums with Gil Evans or Bill Evans because they always like to see white people up in black ****, so that they can say they had something to do with it.
... and that's why Black people loved Miles so much -- he didn't bite his tongue for anybody.
 
Just curious, where do you encounter this and from who? I'm in Maryland too but apparently I don't live around as many ignorant people as you.

Matter of fact, I can't recall anyone asking me why I listen to anything. If anything, I've gotten positive comments because I'm not stuck in a box genre-wise and can play all sorts of music.

I live in Prince Georges County where the vast majority is black. I get that answer from mostly everybody exept my closest friends, even my brother (though in less harsh language, lol). It may be becasue i'm in high school, maybe the adults are more understanding? What i find even funnier though is that i'm in the school jazz band and even those guys say i shouldn't listen to as much fusion as i do, and listen to more traditional jazz, lol. That said i think are jazz band is too close minded, basically if i'm not walking then there's a problem.
 
Miles was influenced by Jimi. He was inspired by Jimi's use of the wah when he recorded "On The Corner" with a wah on his horn. In fact, they were jamming together and we're talking about doing an album together right before Jimi died. One of the best courses I took in school was the History of Miles Davis. Imagine walking into class with Jimi cranking over PA system. That was how we started our lesson one day. It was taught by James Newton, who is also a great player in his own right. So Miles might have said that about Jimi, but he had a lot of respect for Jimi because both of them had their roots in the blues.

EDIT: I didn't realize that above post got in before mine. A great read is Miles Davis's "Smiles". Pretty sure that's from that book.

thats from miles autobiography,a great read for any musician IMO