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JPJ Tone

#21
Chrisk-K said:
JPJ has said numerous times that he used Roto rounds. Just read some of his interviews. Where is the source showing he used flats? Anyway, JPJ's tone is nothing special in early Zep records.
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So, which albums are the ones where his tone IS special?

Also, to the OP, don't assume that he necessarily used the Acoustic 360 in the studio on LZ II. This album was recorded for the most part in bits and pieces at the time of their 1969 US tours, and as can be seen here...

Link Removed

...their preferred backline didn't always show up in time for live dates, as the concept of equipment logistics for rock band tours was still in its infancy. It would appear that JPJ didn't even take possession of the Acoustic until around mid-'69; the earliest US tour shows him using a combination of Rickenbacker Transonics, Marshalls, Sound City/Hiwatts, and in a pinch, borrowing Ampeg and Sunn gear. Their tour gear might not have even gotten to a studio anyway, forcing him to use what was on hand. Their first ever tour, in Sweden, shows them using Vox amps, probable Yardbirds hand-me-downs, and one of those might be the likely candidate for what was used by Jones on the first album, but while Jimmy Page has been willfully vague on his equipment choices at that time, JPJ hasn't exactly been forthright either, so who knows?
 
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#23
Chrisk-K said:
JPJ has said numerous times that he used Roto rounds. Just read some of his interviews. Where is the source showing he used flats? Anyway, JPJ's tone is nothing special in early Zep records.
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Google Groups
John Paul Jones Guitar Player interview with Steven Rosen, 1977.

gp: what kind of a pick and strings do you use?

jpj: herco gray and rotosound wire-wounds. i got into them with the
alembic because i never used to like the round-wound strings. on the
fender i used rotosound, but they were flat-wound, and i've never
liked the string noise. but the alembic just demands you use something
a bit brighter; otherwise you're doing the instrument a disservice.

The implication here would be that JPJ didn't start using rounds until he started playing his Alembic basses. As he says, "on the Fender I used...flatwound." He preferred flats because he didn't like the string noise of rounds, but flats and Alembic don't mix, so he switched to roundwound.
 
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#24
I'm thinking back to pre-Alembic tone, specifically the live Song Remains the Same album from MSG 73. Pretty clearly roundwounds, especially noticeable when he uses picks. I don't trust the info from interviews, they are usually half right
 
#25
Like I said before, I doubt he even remembers. He does go on to say that he's pretty forgetful about things. If I were in one of the biggest bands in the world in the 1970's, I probably wouldn't remember much, either! :p
 
#26
I think a big appeal of and influence from JPJ to me is that he's a real musician's musician. Not to be confused with a bass gear nerd. He experimented with primitive basses like the EB-O and the big block Telecaster bass, on up through the highest tech Alembic and other Manson and Turner made boutique stuff; used flatwounds with foam and then roundwounds, fingerstyle and pick, etc. Think of how many amp setups he went through. And he didnt care, he just needed something that worked. He switched to other instruments for half the show too. No matter what he played on, he sounded like JPJ. The real secret to the JPJ sound isn't a tone, it's in the fingers and it's in the booty.
 
#27
Rayjay said:
I think a big appeal of and influence from JPJ to me is that he's a real musician's musician. Not to be confused with a bass gear nerd. He experimented with primitive basses like the EB-O and the big block Telecaster bass, on up through the highest tech Alembic and other Manson and Turner made boutique stuff; used flatwounds with foam and then roundwounds, fingerstyle and pick, etc. Think of how many amp setups he went through. And he didnt care, he just needed something that worked. He switched to other instruments for half the show too. No matter what he played on, he sounded like JPJ. The real secret to the JPJ sound isn't a tone, it's in the fingers and it's in the booty.
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When I saw him around '97 in Denver with his Zooma band, he played only extended range customs. He had several on stage, and had the builder (Manson?) with him as his guitar tech. He only played bass on the first couple tunes, while a Chapman Stick player handled the other parts. Then Jones switched to steel guitar for the rest, with the Stick player assuming the bass role.

Ironically, only a tiny crowd stood in front of the run-down little Ogden theater, waiting for the doors to open to see the famous Led Zeppelin member. As I stood there waiting I could see the Fillmore a couple hundred yards away, with its big bright marquee sign proclaiming that "Phil Lesh and Friends" were playing there that same night. Throngs of people were filing in to that joint which can hold a huge 3700 person crowd.

Meanwhile back at the Ogden there was only a small Zooma poster on the frond door. Then someone from a radio station (I think) handed out free tickets to everyone waiting. I kept wondering what Jones must have been thinking, knowing that Phil Lesh was packing them in next door that night, while maybe 100 fans showed up for his show. I imagined he may have felt a bit crestfallen.
 
#30
As for JPJ's forgetfulness, I love in the online video lessons on Youtube where JPJ is talking about his finger style and touch, and then he says, for example on What Is and What Should Never Be, and then proceeds to play the lines from Ramble On :roflmao:

I'm sure if JPJ was doing a tour with a Jimmy Page clone and two other Plant/Bonham wannabees he could have sold out the Fillmore with ease, but then again, when you're the former bass player in one of the WORLD's greatest bands (sorry, the Dead never had much of a presence outside the US), you can afford some artistic integrity downscaling.
 
#31
Iridescentone said:
When I saw him around '97 in Denver with his Zooma band, he played only extended range customs. He had several on stage, and had the builder (Manson?) with him as his guitar tech. He only played bass on the first couple tunes, while a Chapman Stick player handled the other parts. Then Jones switched to steel guitar for the rest, with the Stick player assuming the bass role.

Ironically, only a tiny crowd stood in front of the run-down little Ogden theater, waiting for the doors to open to see the famous Led Zeppelin member. As I stood there waiting I could see the Fillmore a couple hundred yards away, with its big bright marquee sign proclaiming that "Phil Lesh and Friends" were playing there that same night. Throngs of people were filing in to that joint which can hold a huge 3700 person crowd.

Meanwhile back at the Ogden there was only a small Zooma poster on the frond door. Then someone from a radio station (I think) handed out free tickets to everyone waiting. I kept wondering what Jones must have been thinking, knowing that Phil Lesh was packing them in next door that night, while maybe 100 fans showed up for his show. I imagined he may have felt a bit crestfallen.
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FYI, that Stick player was Nick Beggs from Kajagoogoo. I also saw him on that tour, then again opening for King Crimson. :bassist:
 
#36
He states rather clearly in the 1977 interview cited above:

  • Jazz - Roto flats
  • Single coil PBass - Roto Rounds
  • Alembic 4 + 8 string - Roto rounds
  • Fretless P Bass - strings not mentioned
  • Variety of other basses (EB0, etc.) - strings not mentioned
Other bits:
  • Recording - usually direct into the console
  • Live - Very early days, anything that was given and/or provided, until he acquired the Acoustic rig
  • Live - sometime late '69 through 1975 tour - Acoustic 360/361
  • Live - 1977 - An early GK head, I forget the model (precursor to the 800/400 RB series), and I'm not sure what the cabinets were, not sure if he mentioned them.
If you go through photographs, and then seek out the bootleg material (both studio and live) that is easily found on YouTube, and use you EARS and some deductive reasoning, you will conclude that the above is correct.

I don't care what he said ten years ago about "switching to rounds in his session days because he wanted the sustain". Rubbish, and doesn't square with the early '69 photos of him with Zeppelin, with the mutes still installed on his Jazz. Step one to increasing sustain - REMOVE THE MUTES.

So I think his recent statements are either a bit of failed memory, or trying to wind people up, or an effort to simply end the questions. "What did you use on this, that, and the other.........." Blanket answer allowing him to move on to more interesting topics: "Rotosound rounds"
 
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#37
I play in a Led Zep tribute and I don't obsess over the gear he used. One thing about Zep is that they never sounded the same live, and certainly not like in their studio records. I like it all, the variety, especially some of his dirtier live tones. I started playing the tribute on a jazz bass but have moved on to a PJ and a P bass. I just prefer Ps to Js, is all good. I love his Jamerson influence and I'm starting to implement Jamersonesque stuff the more I play my P. I'm not a huge fan of the Manson basses he uses, his fretless P sounded much better on Celebration Day IMO.
 
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#38
mouthmw said:
I'm not a huge fan of the Manson basses he uses, his fretless P sounded much better on Celebration Day IMO.
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Go find one of the 1977 live soundboard boots on youtube. His Alembic sound awful in my opinion. Now - this is a soundboard mix - so we do not get the benefit of what his bass sounds like coming out of the cab and through the PA. The man's not deaf - I'd imagine it sounded pretty good. But to your point about his P on Celebration day; listening to the SB recording you get this trebly, clanky, plinky, sound on the first several songs, then they go to play IMTOD where he uses the fretless P, and I whent "ah.....THERE is the fullness and low end".

I have an audience bootleg and a soundboard bootleg of the same '77 show. Been thinking it would be cool to dump the audio into Protools and mix the two together to get the clarity and definition of the soundboard, but also some fullness from the audience recording.

Maybe I'll get to it someday.
 
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