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Double Bass Juilliard Jazz & The No-Amp

#21
Damn, everbody dove in. Yeah, Ray I don't think we're that far apart. My pretensometer went off and I hadda point and stare for a minute. We get to this point pretty much any time this gets brought up. I don't think anybody here is saying "never use an amp". It's like jumping offa stuff. Nobody jumping out an airplane is gonna say "I don't want a parachute". But alla those ninja trained Cirque du Soleil types WHO HAVE HAD MORE PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE JUMPING OFFA STUFF THAN I HAVE are going to be a lot less skittish about, say, jumping off a 16 foot wall. Cause they do that **** alla time.

You remember that guy that recommended taking an amp of at least 300 watts to do a duo gig at a coffee house?
 
#22
man i'm not even going to respond to all that garbage. i think people are missing my point. i'm not bashing no amp guys. ****, i love the sound of my bass without the amp. i play it that way as much as possible. i'm not commenting on ed's touch or monte's touch when they dont use an amp either. (by the way, nice bass monte. i'm looking at one of those myself) what i'm saying is that alot of times band directors who dont play bass tell the kids to pull harder. do no amp guys pull harder then ampped guys? probably, but that's not the kind of "pull harder" im talking about. i'm speaking about when i see some poor kid turning red becuase he cant even pull the strings hard enough and he's grabbing and so tense that he cant even move. that makes you drag! i've even seen some kids who's fingers look like chopped meat because of what they've been put through. that doesnt seem cool to me. pull has hard as you have to in order to get your tone, but dont "pull harder" than that. there's no need to. if you're not swinging, amp or no amp, and you're playing with your correct touch, then pulling harder wont help. debate that all you want, the problem is somewhere else. i never said that you cant groove when pulling hard either, what i mean is that if you pull hard, you'll likely not groove when "pulling harder". i happen to have a heavy touch, but if i were to try to pull harder than that the time would suffer. pull has hard as you like, but if someone, a non bass player tries to alter your physical approach to the bass, be wary. and ed, what's with all the name calling? i never insulted you. seems like you have the anger management issues. i dont think that you're helping this list with those kinds of responses. seems that you are incapable of a nice intellectual debate without losing your cool. this list is here for open discussions, and different doesnt = bad. people wont always agree with you ed. i hope you can deal with that.
 
#23
Ed Fuqua said:
... Nick Ara, Don Higdon have both posted some commentary here about hearing me at gigs while playing acoustically
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With Ed serving as my ampless motivation, I've found that I don't need much for the 75% of the gigs we do, which are primarily private parties (< 60 people). The folks in the audience can hear me fine, but sometime I can't hear myself play. I think it'll come eventually by doing more and more unamplified shows.

A big plus: should we experience another blackout in NYC, I'll be ready for any gig!! :D
 
#25
Ed Fuqua said:
Wow. In all seriousness, you seem to be the one flying off the handle here. I ain't mad at anybody, I'm just having a little fun.
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Hey, Ed. You've questioned the guy's psychiatric diagnosis. In most parts of the country -- say, Maine, New Hampshire or Maryland -- that's not "fun."

Love,

SAM
 
#26
Thanks for all the posts guys. I had no idea this was such a touchy subject. I really love to play acoustically. But the point of me playing acoustically is so I hear my tone. If I'm in a band and no one can hear my tone, then the problem has to be solved. Either by "digging in", which I've been told many times to do, or by amplification. Either way, if no one can hear what you're playing, then why are you even playing?
Thanks again you guys. :)
 
#29
My .02...I love playing without an amp, and I do it whenever I can get away with it. The main reason I love it is because I can't get away with a lot of the guitaristic crap that is possible when I'm amplified. I'm forced to play everything cleanly and clearly, and this usually translates "less info, please". It's like an instant edit function. I like what I play unamped. I've had no complaints of inaudability. Usually, it's "damn, the bass sounds beautiful".

And it does. Barring no amp, I use an AMT mic second, and if things are really noisy, maybe a little pickup. There's no one best way in my case. I do agree that any bassist needs to know how to pull a great sound out acoustically, first and foremost.

That was more like .04...
 
#30
Mike Goodbar said:
Of course, there is the dreaded "third" option:

Telling the other musicians to play &#%*ing softer!

(Yeah, I know, hard to do in a big band.)
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Finally some wisdom.


The debate about amp/no amp is useless. If you need an amp, use one. If you can't play through one, don't use it. If you play well, people tend not to worry about what is or isn't sitting on the floor behind you. People who have a problem with the mere appearance or mention of an amp probably also make judgements based on things equally irrelevant to the way you play.
As for Ben Wolfe, I've sat in on his bass. I could barely make it through two tunes on his bass. Loud or soft is irrelevant. I don't really care if that makes me weak or not. A bass that I can't play is useless to me and, if that is what it takes to declare amps obsolete and make judgements on bass players as a group, no thanks. FWIW, music has evolved somewhat beyond where Ben's approach and temperment seem to be.

If someone has a problem with your preference, either way, they probably won't call you anyway.
 
#31
MAYOR McBASS said:
Finally some wisdom.


The debate about amp/no amp is useless. If you need an amp, use one. If you can't play through one, don't use it. If you play well, people tend not to worry about what is or isn't sitting on the floor behind you. People who have a problem with the mere appearance or mention of an amp probably also make judgements based on things equally irrelevant to the way you play.

If someone has a problem with your preference, either way, they probably won't call you anyway.
Click to expand...


+1

Saved me a bunch of typing, thanks.
 
#34
Here's another semi-related thought:

I saw a Rufus Reid clinic, and he talked a little bit about pickups, amps etc (though he performed to a 400-seat house the night before using no amp and had no complaints about not being heard). He said a lot of the stuff that's been said here like if you have a puny sound and amplify it, it will be a LOUD puny sound etc.

He also STRONGLY recommended that if you are going to perform using an amplifier, you should spend a portion of your time PRACTICING with an amplifier. Woe be, he said, to the bass player how shows up at a gig unable to deal with his rig.
 
#35
shwashwa said:
i'd be more than happy to come introduce myself to you after your next gig at kavehaz.. in the back alley. :-) (joke) by the way, thats where i was playing the same night as ben wolfe when i couldnt hear him.
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Next gig in public I got is Friday July 2nd at the Hudson River Museum, you are more than welcome to come by and say "Hi". I'd prefer NOT to have to identify you by the baseball bat, a friendly "Hello" will suffice.

KAVEHAZ is a noisy joint sometimes, especially if you are playing the sets after SATELLA kicks up. I've worked the new location only as a trio (sax, bass and drums) and (as Mike so rightly points out) did what I needed to do to be heard. Which, for me and my bass, was to just put my mic through the house system.

So, SWANSONG, we cool or what?
 
#36
we're cool. i shouldnt be hard to spot. there arent many 250 lb bodybuilding upright jazz bass players in manhatten. (that's not a joke)
i've played at the new kavehaz, but when i saw ben wolfe we were playing at the old one, and there crowds were bigger there ususally. there was alot of room noise which i mentioned in an earlier post.

Ed Fuqua said:
Next gig in public I got is Friday July 2nd at the Hudson River Museum, you are more than welcome to come by and say "Hi". I'd prefer NOT to have to identify you by the baseball bat, a friendly "Hello" will suffice.

KAVEHAZ is a noisy joint sometimes, especially if you are playing the sets after SATELLA kicks up. I've worked the new location only as a trio (sax, bass and drums) and (as Mike so rightly points out) did what I needed to do to be heard. Which, for me and my bass, was to just put my mic through the house system.

So, SWANSONG, we cool or what?
Click to expand...
 
#37
shwashwa said:
we're cool. i shouldnt be hard to spot. there arent many 250 lb bodybuilding upright jazz bass players in manhatten. (that's not a joke)
i've played at the new kavehaz, but when i saw ben wolfe we were playing at the old one, and there crowds were bigger there ususally. there was alot of room noise which i mentioned in an earlier post.
Click to expand...


You got PM. 250 lbs means my guess is DEFINITELY wrong. WA would have to clone himself a coupla times at least to make 250. You DO got my curiousity piqued, though.

How many choruses can a 250 lb bodybuilding bassist take?
 
#39
SASQUATCH said:
we're cool. i shouldnt be hard to spot. there arent many 250 lb bodybuilding upright jazz bass players in manhatten. (that's not a joke)
Click to expand...

Like everything else in NYC, I bet there's more than you think. Just don't break FOGHORN's bass, okay? He's really just a po' boy from the south who's only just started saving for that Panormo he's had his eye on.

And while we're stirring up hornet nests, may I take this opportunity to strongly agree with Rufus about practicing with an amp from time to time if you know you're going to be playing with an amp. I've mentioned this point around these parts before and got soundly booed off the stage...but that was before I had a 250 lb jazz legend being quoted making the same point. I also recently practiced for a week into a LD condenser into a set of phones to get ready for a couple of recording sessions I had coming up. I can defintely say the experience was helpful not only in finding my sound in the studio, but also in NOT becoming freaked out and disoriented while hearing every little sound my bass made in the cans while recording.
 
#40
i'm certianly no ledgend that's for damn sure... i'm just a regular guy trying to make some gigs in nyc. i'm sure most people havent heard of me. i can post a pic if you like..

Chris Fitzgerald said:
Like everything else in NYC, I bet there's more than you think. Just don't break FOGHORN's bass, okay? He's really just a po' boy from the south who's only just started saving for that Panormo he's had his eye on.

And while we're stirring up hornet nests, may I take this opportunity to strongly agree with Rufus about practicing with an amp from time to time if you know you're going to be playing with an amp. I've mentioned this point around these parts before and got soundly booed off the stage...but that was before I had a 250 lb jazz legend being quoted making the same point. I also recently practiced for a week into a LD condenser into a set of phones to get ready for a couple of recording sessions I had coming up. I can defintely say the experience was helpful not only in finding my sound in the studio, but also in NOT becoming freaked out and disoriented while hearing every little sound my bass made in the cans while recording.
Click to expand...
 

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