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Jule Amps Monique part 4

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Agreeing with nostatic. My experience is that a dedicated power amp sounds better than an amp's power section. One major difference is the high end, which is much better in a dedicated power amp. It isn't as bright as my Mesa Buster up top, but Buster is a bright amp.
 
...all of which illustrates how many design choices are made past the preamp in most integrated bass amps. Lots believe they're bypassing all the coloring and just getting the power amp, but that's almost never the case. There IS a lot of color and a lot of signal massage going on south of the preamp.
 
Some of your air top end may be found in the sensitivity. Dial out some lows and mids and see if you still have girth and your highs.

Play with the EQ is ongoing. Current favorite is BASS at noon (give or take), MID at 2:00 or 3:00, HI at 1:00. Sensitivity is interesting -- I thought IN/OUT would behave like a simple boost, but that doesn't seem to be the case. OUT is a little rougher/more grindy (though grind might be a strong word) at all settings, IN a little smoother. Dialing it up indeed yields a harmonically richer sound, but going too high feels like it flattens the dynamics slightly. All the way down feels almost solid-state. In-between there's a fairly broad sweet-spot with varying degrees of bounce/harmonic richness/transient response. Got to play with this a lot more, though. There is plenty of BASS at noon, will try dialing it down and see how it goes.

fwiw, I think Monique sounds better through a dedicated power amp, and wrt the highs, wait to get into a band situation before you start chasing the air. On a related note I initially struggled with the dual coil pickups on one of my basses (my main bass is EMG PJ). I just didn't have the sizzle and air with the dual coils. But every gig recording I listened to had the bass just sound spot-on.

Don't have experience with a dedicated power amp, but agreed that I will have to see how I like things in a group context.

...Have you tried adjusting the treble and bass controls on your Dr. Bass cab?

No controls to adjust. ;) No tweeter, either, but the mid/high driver gets plenty bright and grindy with the Genz.

What room were you testing them in? Carpet/wood/tiles, brick/glass/drywall, etc.... that'll emphasise or mask certain sound qualities.
Typical, modest, early 21st century apartment living room with low carpet and thin drywall. Cab is less than 6" from the wall and, necessarily, played at relatively low volume at home.

It's a real surprise hearing the same gear sound so different in different venues.
Agreed! Some of my best "home sounds" didn't translate well at all live and at volume.

Agreeing with nostatic. My experience is that a dedicated power amp sounds better than an amp's power section. One major difference is the high end, which is much better in a dedicated power amp. It isn't as bright as my Mesa Buster up top, but Buster is a bright amp.

Are you saying that the Monique isn't as bright as the Buster, or that the top end on a certain, dedicated power amp isn't as bright as the Buster's?

...all of which illustrates how many design choices are made past the preamp in most integrated bass amps. Lots believe they're bypassing all the coloring and just getting the power amp, but that's almost never the case. There IS a lot of color and a lot of signal massage going on south of the preamp.

This I was not aware of. I thought that by plugging into the POWER AMP IN of the Genz that I'd be getting (probably) some hi-passing but nothing else. As for the high-end, *I think* that I noticed a similar roll-off with both micros as well as the Genz, but I spent much less time playing through them. Will double-check my impressions.

A friend just told me last night that he picked up a Peavey IPR 3000 (same you use, BurningSkies, if I recall). I rarely see him, but that might be worth arranging a borrow or meet-up for. Last I knew, he also had a very simple, one-tube pre (VERY bright sounding, as I recall). If he still has it, it might be interesting to play through it and Monique side-by-side, as well as to play both through the IPR and the Genz.

Thanks all for your thoughts -- feel free to chime in with more! I'm interested to hear folks' experiences with the Minne compared to other power amps (and will re-read previous posts there).

Will continue to play around with Monique -- still just getting to know it, really -- and report back when I have some more practical, beyond-the-living-room experience.
-Mark
 
I would love a pull switch on the treble control to shift it up an octave or so to get a brighter voice without boosting the upper midrange. My tweeter-less cabs could use a little treble boost. Probably because I've spent so many years playing GK.

Also, I often use bass amps with my steel guitar, but Monique's treble is too low to get what I need on that instrument. My B-15N at 4k is perfect 1001RB-II at 8k is fine, Monique at 2k doesn't quite get there.

Seriously, the best sounding DI I've ever played.
 
This I was not aware of. I thought that by plugging into the POWER AMP IN of the Genz that I'd be getting (probably) some hi-passing but nothing else. As for the high-end, *I think* that I noticed a similar roll-off with both micros as well as the Genz, but I spent much less time playing through them. Will double-check my impressions.

A friend just told me last night that he picked up a Peavey IPR 3000 (same you use, BurningSkies, if I recall). I rarely see him, but that might be worth arranging a borrow or meet-up for. Last I knew, he also had a very simple, one-tube pre (VERY bright sounding, as I recall). If he still has it, it might be interesting to play through it and Monique side-by-side, as well as to play both through the IPR and the Genz.

Thanks all for your thoughts -- feel free to chime in with more! I'm interested to hear folks' experiences with the Minne compared to other power amps (and will re-read previous posts there).

Will continue to play around with Monique -- still just getting to know it, really -- and report back when I have some more practical, beyond-the-living-room experience.
-Mark

Well, there are a bunch of considerations when it comes to an integrated bass amp design. The power amp is half of it. If you think about it, unlike a PA style power amp, which is intended (for the most part) to reproduce what you feed it and that could be any number of various devices with various signals, the power amp for your bass amp is designed with very specific conditions:

-to work with a specific preamp that functions in a very specific way with specific levels, tone, etc., and create a 'tone' that is representative of what the consumer expects and wants.

-To feed a speaker or speakers within a fairly specific and narrow range of value of signal specs

-To handle clipping gracefully, or avoid clipping, to handle specific ranges (like deep lows) in such a way to maximize the output stage's available wattage and/or clean signal, or possibly harmonic distortion. How it handles peaks and transients, etc.

-Engineering concerns for cost, reliability, stability, serviceability etc.

PA power amps look at the same issues, but have to be built to reproduce what you feed it faithfully...which could be any range of signals.
 
Hey Mark A,

It is true even though going into the power section of a micro you will get some color. I experience this with my Puma 900. I have to be careful not to drive Mo too hard into it otherwise it starts to get really aggressive.

But pleased don't be fooled by thinking if you use a PA amp you won't get color either. I have used certain PA amps that have produced some color due to DSP processing or built in limiters. I noticed this with the Peavey IPR 1600. The limiter was kicking in and absolutely changing the tone (I was pushing it a bit and was not running it in bridge mode when I tried it). I have not noticed this with the Crest Pro lite power amp or my Crest Pro 5200. But I don't play at Madison Square Garden Volumes either.

The obvious choice seems to get a Minnie since it was designed for Mo. I just wish it wasn't so expensive. That is what has been holding me back from getting one.
 
But pleased don't be fooled by thinking if you use a PA amp you won't get color either. I have used certain PA amps that have produced some color due to DSP processing or built in limiters. I noticed this with the Peavey IPR 1600. The limiter was kicking in and absolutely changing the tone (I was pushing it a bit and was not running it in bridge mode when I tried it). I have not noticed this with the Crest Pro lite power amp or my Crest Pro 5200. But I don't play at Madison Square Garden Volumes either.

I've had my IPR clip during gigs at places with low line voltage, which will reduce your headroom exponentially (power amp clipping rather than input clipping). Its not pretty. I've found that if I suspect a situation (often you can guess by the room what the power is like), running bridged is the way to go. It increases your headroom to the point where you don't need to worry about it.
 
In a life filled with ever-harder financial tradeoffs, using a Puma 900 in lieu of a Minnie doesn't seem like slumming to me!

1st world problem. however, based on running Mo through my Jag 900 power section, i'd say it robs you of tone. i found that i liked it better through the front of the amp than in the loop return. the loop-return sounded dull vs the standard input.
 
1st world problem. however, based on running Mo through my Jag 900 power section, i'd say it robs you of tone. i found that i liked it better through the front of the amp than in the loop return. the loop-return sounded dull vs the standard input.

I do have to say that running the Monique through the front of the Puma 900 produces WAY more volume. I could see how one might interpret running it through the effects loop as a "loss of tone." But sometimes volume produces other audio perceptions (hence the "loudness war" in music production). It's easier to connect the Puma 900 through the rear, which avoids pulling a cable over the top of the rack to plug into the front. So far I'm not discerning a sonic quality drop going through the front of the 900. The extra "umph" volume wise makes the 900 feel more like a big iron amp.
 
I do have to say that running the Monique through the front of the Puma 900 produces WAY more volume. I could see how one might interpret running it through the effects loop as a "loss of tone." But sometimes volume produces other audio perceptions (hence the "loudness war" in music production). It's easier to connect the Puma 900 through the rear, which avoids pulling a cable over the top of the rack to plug into the front. So far I'm not discerning a sonic quality drop going through the front of the 900. The extra "umph" volume wise makes the 900 feel more like a big iron amp.

Hey, Dave, when you plug Monique into the back of your Puma, what's still in the Puma's signal path?
 
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