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Just another rant

Apr 13, 2008
1,520
2,924
Greece
Well, this is indeed just a rant, I don't really expect any advice, so... here goes.

Been in a band with friends for the past 6-7 months. Originals mostly, with some covers thrown in to fill a playlist for gigs. Their former singer and the bassist left and we (me and new singer) were tagged. All good, at the beginning. Some drama but nothing we couldn't really solve.

Fast forward to so many months later, lead guitarist's ego issues flare up again. Everybody's on the brink of firing him but we give him another chance since we have some gigs scheduled and don't wanna go through the process of a hasty replacement.
Thing is, dude has issues with me, mostly. I'm the oldest and most experienced in the band and people tend to listen to my suggestions. Thing is, what I suggest is mostly logical, nothing more, nothing less.
LG is a shy, introverted, half-damaged and ego-driven jealous child, at this point. Used to having his way (why the former band members left) and can't take the fact that the rest of band started going another way (mine).

In any case, apart from that, I tend to play more than roots. Which was clear to them from the get-go. I don't overplay but I'm more on the melodic side and don't like to shadow the guitars and just boom-boom away on the root notes all day. Everyone seemed to be ok with it. Moving forward... but not so much.
Suddenly, it's "oh Gothic you're kinda overplaying". First it was "playful" but I always detected a lot of truth (in their minds) in there.

Things flare up at some point while recording a single, where everyone was ok with what I played. It wasn't excessive, it was tasteful, according to everyone. When the time comes for the final mix, all I hear is mud from the bass. You really couldn't discern the notes. It was mostly just there to push air through the subwoofers. I protested and brought forth examples (mostly old time rock and metal) where the bass was audible. I got pushback.

They insist on restricting themselves by trying to fit into a very specific music/genre mold they call "modern" and refuse to understand that, the stuff they wanna sound like have bass players that shadow the guitars. And are, of course, buried in the mix. I do NOT want to be that guy. I made it clear. No progress after that.

And fast forward to today. I just gave up. I resigned. The hang's ok, they're friends after all and I like hanging out with them, but I outright told them that I'm there just for the beer and the hang. I'm of course staying for the connections and "air time", "circulation", if you will, as well.
They just want someone to fill some low frequencies. I resigned to playing the simplest version of whatever we're playing. I mean, dead boring root pumping and nothing more. Nobody noticed.

I know where I stand with them, and sadly, this has been the case with most every band I've ever been in. And also, the reason I'd resigned from getting into bands some years ago. It's just sad, and what's even sadder is that, trying to get something of my own together, finding band members that share the same vision is just plain impossible over here. Small country, smallish town and whatever else that entails.

Anyway, that's my rant. However made it to the end, kudos!
 
Well, this is indeed just a rant, I don't really expect any advice, so... here goes.

Been in a band with friends for the past 6-7 months. Originals mostly, with some covers thrown in to fill a playlist for gigs. Their former singer and the bassist left and we (me and new singer) were tagged. All good, at the beginning. Some drama but nothing we couldn't really solve.

Fast forward to so many months later, lead guitarist's ego issues flare up again. Everybody's on the brink of firing him but we give him another chance since we have some gigs scheduled and don't wanna go through the process of a hasty replacement.
Thing is, dude has issues with me, mostly. I'm the oldest and most experienced in the band and people tend to listen to my suggestions. Thing is, what I suggest is mostly logical, nothing more, nothing less.
LG is a shy, introverted, half-damaged and ego-driven jealous child, at this point. Used to having his way (why the former band members left) and can't take the fact that the rest of band started going another way (mine).

In any case, apart from that, I tend to play more than roots. Which was clear to them from the get-go. I don't overplay but I'm more on the melodic side and don't like to shadow the guitars and just boom-boom away on the root notes all day. Everyone seemed to be ok with it. Moving forward... but not so much.
Suddenly, it's "oh Gothic you're kinda overplaying". First it was "playful" but I always detected a lot of truth (in their minds) in there.

Things flare up at some point while recording a single, where everyone was ok with what I played. It wasn't excessive, it was tasteful, according to everyone. When the time comes for the final mix, all I hear is mud from the bass. You really couldn't discern the notes. It was mostly just there to push air through the subwoofers. I protested and brought forth examples (mostly old time rock and metal) where the bass was audible. I got pushback.

They insist on restricting themselves by trying to fit into a very specific music/genre mold they call "modern" and refuse to understand that, the stuff they wanna sound like have bass players that shadow the guitars. And are, of course, buried in the mix. I do NOT want to be that guy. I made it clear. No progress after that.

And fast forward to today. I just gave up. I resigned. The hang's ok, they're friends after all and I like hanging out with them, but I outright told them that I'm there just for the beer and the hang. I'm of course staying for the connections and "air time", "circulation", if you will, as well.
They just want someone to fill some low frequencies. I resigned to playing the simplest version of whatever we're playing. I mean, dead boring root pumping and nothing more. Nobody noticed.

I know where I stand with them, and sadly, this has been the case with most every band I've ever been in. And also, the reason I'd resigned from getting into bands some years ago. It's just sad, and what's even sadder is that, trying to get something of my own together, finding band members that share the same vision is just plain impossible over here. Small country, smallish town and whatever else that entails.

Anyway, that's my rant. However made it to the end, kudos!

When you say "resigned" do you mean you left or that you gave up and started mirroring the guitar?
 
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Thanks for the clarity. So do you anticipate this being the long term state (in which case I suspect you will find it very frustrating) or is the guitar expected to leave soon?

I honestly don't know. Musically, I don't feel I'm expressing myself to any pleasurable degree so I'm getting nothing on that side. It's the hang and the networking that keep me from outright quitting. To be honest, I'm more concerned about finding the right people for my own thing. I absolutely detest when someone's made their mind on being musically "trapped" in a certain box. Kills creativity, for me, that mentality of "oh that's not -us-, it's metal/funk/jazz/whatever".
 
Guitar mirroring, mostly, yes. Just extremely dumbed down versions of whatever I would otherwise play.
Hey, you're not alone. Quite often guitar players just want the bass to pump out root notes because that's a nice bed for them to play over.
Mostly if it's a recording I'm kind of hired to play how I play and mostly it's not going to be just root notes and mostly when a guitar player complains about the bass line whoever is in charge of the session tells them to play their part and leave the bass to the bass player.
 
I honestly don't know. Musically, I don't feel I'm expressing myself to any pleasurable degree so I'm getting nothing on that side. It's the hang and the networking that keep me from outright quitting. To be honest, I'm more concerned about finding the right people for my own thing. I absolutely detest when someone's made their mind on being musically "trapped" in a certain box. Kills creativity, for me, that mentality of "oh that's not -us-, it's metal/funk/jazz/whatever".

Tell me if my assumptions are off but I'm guessing most of the musicians you are playing with a youngish? If so there is hope as older players tend to move away from being genre warriors and get more eclectic tastes. Hopefully some guys like that can be found/jam with you.
 
Tell me if my assumptions are off but I'm guessing most of the musicians you are playing with a youngish? If so there is hope as older players tend to move away from being genre warriors and get more eclectic tastes. Hopefully some guys like that can be found/jam with you.

Right you are, friend. Oldest is 27 and musically, even he is a lot "younger" when it comes to music, genres and even technical ability. I'm not that old (turning 35 in about a month) but still, since my teens, I knew that I didn't want to slap a label on my music and follow that label/genre blindly. Perhaps they can change and grow and see things differently but I highly doubt it. Even more so when it comes to the perceived role of the bass in music.
 
That's pretty good rock music you got there, and a good mix of root notes and more melodic parts and transitions would totally sound awesome. I can hear some, but I'm currently on my phone, and phone speakers can't render bass. So i guess there's more than what I can hear right now.

You even got some prog rock in there and they say they can't fit nice melodic bass? :bored: Makes no sense to me.

Also, in this song, I feel a guitarist trying to steal the show? Could that be the real problem?
 
That's pretty good rock music you got there, and a good mix of root notes and more melodic parts and transitions would totally sound awesome. I can hear some, but I'm currently on my phone, and phone speakers can't render bass. So i guess there's more than what I can hear right now.

You even got some prog rock in there and they say they can fit nice melodic bass? :bored: Makes no sense to me.

Also, in this song, I feel a guitarist trying to steal the show? Could that be the real problem?

Thanks man.

Well, it is -a- problem. Lead's ego and attitude plus the insistence of the rest that it's just rock and the bass should be even lower and less discernible and stick to simpler parts, along with the fact that, they blather on about "modern" sounding, whenever I present an example (Maiden, older Dio, Sabbath, Rush etc.) where the bass is more melodic and inherently prominent, all without burying the guitars, the dismiss it on grounds that they're "old mix styles" and "not our style". And they're really into blackstone cherry, new guns 'n' roses and all that stuff. And yeah... You get the gist.
 
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Wow, this situation sucks. All my life, I've been playing mostly with friends from high-school (I'm 35 now), and all of them turned out to be good, to really good players. All of them have way more creativity than I do (not that I don't have any). And none of them were ever even blocked by "standards" or styles, even in their (and mine) early twenties... or before that.

But I feel your pain. Twice in my life I tried joining bands with strangers. The worst time, I decided to quit after the second jamming session, when the signer told me I should stop looking for cool riffs, and just "play what the guitar player plays". I felt sad for them, and quit.

From what I can understand from your situation, I believe quitting would make you feel better in the long run. I can't imagine playing dumbed down versions of my own riffs night after night... But that's me. ;) Also, I understand that finding new guys to play with can be tough in a small place. Any other small towns around that you could "poke" for fresh musicians?
 
Wow, this situation sucks. All my life, I've been playing mostly with friends from high-school (I'm 35 now), and all of them turned out to be good, to really good players. All of them have way more creativity than I do (not that I don't have any). And none of them were ever even blocked by "standards" or styles, even in their (and mine) early twenties... or before that.

But I feel your pain. Twice in my life I tried joining bands with strangers. The worst time, I decided to quit after the second jamming session, when the signer told me I should stop looking for cool riffs, and just "play what the guitar player plays". I felt sad for them, and quit.

From what I can understand from your situation, I believe quitting would make you feel better in the long run. I can't imagine playing dumbed down versions of my own riffs night after night... But that's me. ;) Also, I understand that finding new guys to play with can be tough in a small place. Any other small towns around that you could "poke" for fresh musicians?

Yes, admittedly, even with the whole "they're friends" thing going, unless the situation changes (doubtful) I see myself quitting at some point. I admit it's the networking and being "in circulation", if you will, that mostly keeps me in.

My city's the second biggest in Greece, so if I can't find anyone here, you can imagine the situation. Guys that are better players and talented all have commitments to other bands and those that do not, aren't really... well, worth it. I know that sounds bad but I've been in too many bands like this and it's left quite the bitter taste in my mouth. So much so that I'd rather just write my own stuff at home by mysef.

Guitarists, especially have been a great pain and, being a guitarist myselfas well, I can neither understand nor tolerate this kind of attitude. At the first whiff of this crap I'm out, if it's a "strangers" band.

In any case, thank you all for chiming in, I do kinda feel better seeing as I'm not just being an overreacting jerk in this situation.
 
My city's the second biggest in Greece, so if I can't find anyone here, you can imagine the situation.

Woops! I must have misread that part. :D

Then I wish that you find more fitting folks to play with you, and yes, recording some stuff at home could be a good way in finding them. If they can listen to where you want to go before joining a hypothetical new band, then it'll be crystal clear from the start.
 
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Right you are, friend. Oldest is 27 and musically, even he is a lot "younger" when it comes to music, genres and even technical ability. I'm not that old (turning 35 in about a month) but still, since my teens, I knew that I didn't want to slap a label on my music and follow that label/genre blindly. Perhaps they can change and grow and see things differently but I highly doubt it. Even more so when it comes to the perceived role of the bass in music.

My sympathy, I'm mid 30s too and would likely feel similarly frustrated in your shoes. Keeping in circulation sounds like a promising plan. Bass players are sought after so I suspect you could be in more than 1 band soon enough.
 
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You know, I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about constructive criticism from other players. Maybe they actually know something you don't. If I disagree about something I'll say so, but if what you're playing isn't working for everyone else, then you either respect your bandmates or you don't. And those who don't don't find themselves in bands too long.

That said, if this is a typical example of what you do in that one song, I think they're nuts. It's not like they're playing AC/DC style music. I'd tell them, "If you think sacrificing someone else's good part will make your good part sound more amazing, think again."