Just another rant

[Gothic]

You know, I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about constructive criticism from other players. Maybe they actually know something you don't. If I disagree about something I'll say so, but if what you're playing isn't working for everyone else, then you either respect your bandmates or you don't. And those who don't don't find themselves in bands too long.

That said, if this is a typical example of what you do in that one song, I think they're nuts. It's not like they're playing AC/DC style music. I'd tell them, "If you think sacrificing someone else's good part will make your good part sound more amazing, think again."

I get what you're saying and I'd been at times guilty of overreacting to criticism (albeit in those cases, not very constructive, more "restrictive" really). I'm all about the whole "serving the song" thing but I believe that, when you're writing original music, it's up to the whole team to walk that line between serving the song and making it fun for everyone as well. There are a lot of ways one can serve the song, and when it comes to the bass, I find that playing melodically really gets me going, creatively speaking.

I'll pull back if something's universally (as in, everyone else in the band) found too much but when the simplest stuff, and especially melodic lines are constantly shot down as "overplaying", well, I have to draw the line. It just kills my vibe. Even more so when I'm clear from the get go about what my playing style is like and it's agreed that I'm actually wanted there for that style. And only to end up being shot down time after time for "overplaying".

And absolutely, that song's certainly representantive of me taking into consideration the band's "vision" and pulling back when called for and also trying to piece together something more melodic and outside of the guitars, wherever possible and applicable, that can serve both the song and me as a player and creative collaborator.

 

[JimmyM]

I get what you're saying and I'd been at times guilty of overreacting to criticism (albeit in those cases, not very constructive, more "restrictive" really). I'm all about the whole "serving the song" thing but I believe that, when you're writing original music, it's up to the whole team to walk that line between serving the song and making it fun for everyone as well. There are a lot of ways one can serve the song, and when it comes to the bass, I find that playing melodically really gets me going, creatively speaking.

I'll pull back if something's universally (as in, everyone else in the band) found too much but when the simplest stuff, and especially melodic lines are constantly shot down as "overplaying", well, I have to draw the line. It just kills my vibe. Even more so when I'm clear from the get go about what my playing style is like and it's agreed that I'm actually wanted there for that style. And only to end up being shot down time after time for "overplaying".

And absolutely, that song's certainly representantive of me taking into consideration the band's "vision" and pulling back when called for and also trying to piece together something more melodic and outside of the guitars, wherever possible and applicable, that can serve both the song and me as a player and creative collaborator.

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy about getting that much in I thought it was a terrific part for that song that sounds like you got some melody in there. If you pick your spots that well on everything, I don't see a problem for them or you. Maybe they just want you to pick your spots a little less.

 

[locisbrelm]

I think the problem is communication between you and your members. As a melodic bass player, I understand that you need to be melodic. As a music listener I fully see where your guys are coming from. Your melody clashes with their melody in a few spots. I think they just wanted your lines tighten up.

 

[Gothic]

I think the problem is communication between you and your members. As a melodic bass player, I understand that you need to be melodic. As a music listener I fully see where your guys are coming from. Your melody clashes with their melody in a few spots. I think they just wanted your lines tighten up.

How do you mean? Can you please explain a bit more?

 

[JaseOfBase]

Man that guitar player’s tone is absolutely atrocious and his playing is about as cheesy as it could ever be.

Join a funky band. Problem solved, haha.

 

[MojoPenguin]

My guess would be you need more mids. Maybe getting a DG pedal and find YOUR frequency.

 

[Gothic]

My guess would be you need more mids. Maybe getting a DG pedal and find YOUR frequency.

A darkglass would be awesome if I could afford it but I doubt these people wanna hear more of me, more clearly.

 

[bolophonic]

I didn’t hear anything that I would consider “overplaying.” Personally, I would be disappointed if my band put that much energy into neutering my input as a bassist.

 

[smtp4me]

Thanks man.

Well, it is -a- problem. Lead's ego and attitude plus the insistence of the rest that it's just rock and the bass should be even lower and less discernible and stick to simpler parts, along with the fact that, they blather on about "modern" sounding, whenever I present an example (Maiden, older Dio, Sabbath, Rush etc.) where the bass is more melodic and inherently prominent, all without burying the guitars, the dismiss it on grounds that they're "old mix styles" and "not our style". And they're really into blackstone cherry, new guns 'n' roses and all that stuff. And yeah... You get the gist.

I would ask the guitarist how they would feel if their tracks for each song were over-simplified, and even the tone (EQ etc.) watered down until it was barely discernible. Sounds like some of the other band members lack empathy - if they allow themselves to sound exactly how they want in each song, but don't want to give you that same freedom - you're dealing with narcissists and egos. And... the "not our style" comments would be a concern for me, because you are part of our, you are part of the band and your opinions/input/ideas are no less important than anyone else's. IHMO, in the context of what you are describing, when one of them says "not our style", they are actually saying "not my style". I'm not convinced they are actually thinking of the band as a group of equals.

 

[locisbrelm]

How do you mean? Can you please explain a bit more?

I'm typing as I listen but this is what I would suggest to you and your band

Riff 1
Your fills are right on top of the riff, make the riff your fill.

Verse 1
Amazing just needs to be a little tighter

Chorus(s) fills could follow the guitars a bit more without sacrificing groove

Verse 2
Same as 1

Guitar Solo
I love what you're doing, get the guitarist to follow your octaves here

Bass solo
That's where I'd get more creative and bring more feeling, make it more like a soloish thing instead of just root-fill

Guitar solo 2/outro, guitarist is just waking, there's not much going on, there is not much for you to do but keep the low. But I'd ask him for a better, more melodic solo and maybe spice up the backing riff. Maybe a key change halfway through. Cut this part down a lot shorter.

After writing this I think that the main issues are you need to find better spots for your "bass only fills" and your guitarist needs to cut the wank or wank better

 

[Gothic]

I'm typing as I listen but this is what I would suggest to you and your band

Riff 1
Your fills are right on top of the riff, make the riff your fill.

Verse 1
Amazing just needs to be a little tighter

Chorus(s) fills could follow the guitars a bit more without sacrificing groove

Verse 2
Same as 1

Guitar Solo
I love what you're doing, get the guitarist to follow your octaves here

Bass solo
That's where I'd get more creative and bring more feeling, make it more like a soloish thing instead of just root-fill

Guitar solo 2/outro, guitarist is just waking, there's not much going on, there is not much for you to do but keep the low. But I'd ask him for a better, more melodic solo and maybe spice up the backing riff. Maybe a key change halfway through. Cut this part down a lot shorter.

After writing this I think that the main issues are you need to find better spots for your "bass only fills" and your guitarist needs to cut the wank or wank better

Thanks man, I really appreciate your input.

Let me explain a bit, so you can understand the situation.

The first solo was supposed to just be a breakdown, half the measures it is now. LG decided to go for a solo there, too. The bass solo was actually what was supposed to be behind the second solo. Keep an oriental kinda thing going there where the LG could solo over. It was decided it was too much. That part was originally an actual bass solo but yeah, bass solos are apparenty bad, better give the guitarist more solos. The wankfest at the end is indeed too long winded but nobody said anything. Especially considering my constant nagging about changing it up, both in dynamics and key etc. Nope. Just E-F ad nauseam.

 

[db59]

Man that guitar player’s tone is absolutely atrocious and his playing is about as cheesy as it could ever be.

Join a funky band. Problem solved, haha.

Beat me to it......thin , tiny, yug, best defines it for me

 

[fhm555]

Sometimes a less than ideal situation beats no situation at all. Considering the location OP described, i’d say any situation would be better than the alternative.
Also, if a band wants simple bass lines, a bass players responsibility is to deliver those simple lines or move on to a project more suited for their style.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Sure. It's a rough mix of the single I was talking about. And they seem to want my parts "simplified". Honestly don't know how much simpler they can get.

That's pretty impressive, and to my very amateur ears the bass sounds pretty much perfect.

 

[Chrisk-K]

I present an example (Maiden, older Dio, Sabbath, Rush etc.) where the bass is more melodic and inherently prominent,

Unless you are the main writer like Harris, Geezer or Geddy, you are the lowly bass player. So play like Michael Anthony or Ian Hill.

 

[Ric5]

Well, this is indeed just a rant, I don't really expect any advice, so... here goes.

Been in a band with friends for the past 6-7 months. Originals mostly, with some covers thrown in to fill a playlist for gigs. Their former singer and the bassist left and we (me and new singer) were tagged. All good, at the beginning. Some drama but nothing we couldn't really solve.

Fast forward to so many months later, lead guitarist's ego issues flare up again. Everybody's on the brink of firing him but we give him another chance since we have some gigs scheduled and don't wanna go through the process of a hasty replacement.
Thing is, dude has issues with me, mostly. I'm the oldest and most experienced in the band and people tend to listen to my suggestions. Thing is, what I suggest is mostly logical, nothing more, nothing less.
LG is a shy, introverted, half-damaged and ego-driven jealous child, at this point. Used to having his way (why the former band members left) and can't take the fact that the rest of band started going another way (mine).

In any case, apart from that, I tend to play more than roots. Which was clear to them from the get-go. I don't overplay but I'm more on the melodic side and don't like to shadow the guitars and just boom-boom away on the root notes all day. Everyone seemed to be ok with it. Moving forward... but not so much.
Suddenly, it's "oh Gothic you're kinda overplaying". First it was "playful" but I always detected a lot of truth (in their minds) in there.

Things flare up at some point while recording a single, where everyone was ok with what I played. It wasn't excessive, it was tasteful, according to everyone. When the time comes for the final mix, all I hear is mud from the bass. You really couldn't discern the notes. It was mostly just there to push air through the subwoofers. I protested and brought forth examples (mostly old time rock and metal) where the bass was audible. I got pushback.

They insist on restricting themselves by trying to fit into a very specific music/genre mold they call "modern" and refuse to understand that, the stuff they wanna sound like have bass players that shadow the guitars. And are, of course, buried in the mix. I do NOT want to be that guy. I made it clear. No progress after that.

And fast forward to today. I just gave up. I resigned. The hang's ok, they're friends after all and I like hanging out with them, but I outright told them that I'm there just for the beer and the hang. I'm of course staying for the connections and "air time", "circulation", if you will, as well.
They just want someone to fill some low frequencies. I resigned to playing the simplest version of whatever we're playing. I mean, dead boring root pumping and nothing more. Nobody noticed.

I know where I stand with them, and sadly, this has been the case with most every band I've ever been in. And also, the reason I'd resigned from getting into bands some years ago. It's just sad, and what's even sadder is that, trying to get something of my own together, finding band members that share the same vision is just plain impossible over here. Small country, smallish town and whatever else that entails.

Anyway, that's my rant. However made it to the end, kudos!

LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE STUCK IN A BAND WITH A JACKASS

 

[Gothic]

Unless you are the main writer like Harris, Geezer or Geddy, you are the lowly bass player. So play like Michael Anthony or Ian Hill.

Wish I were making Van Halen or Judas Priest money, though!

LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE STUCK IN A BAND WITH A JACKASS

Hope I'm not the jackass in this one!

 

[DirtDog]

Sounds like most of the people in that band are not ready to be in a band.

 

[Loring]

Well, this is indeed just a rant, I don't really expect any advice, so... here goes.

Been in a band with friends for the past 6-7 months. Originals mostly, with some covers thrown in to fill a playlist for gigs. Their former singer and the bassist left and we (me and new singer) were tagged. All good, at the beginning. Some drama but nothing we couldn't really solve.

Fast forward to so many months later, lead guitarist's ego issues flare up again. Everybody's on the brink of firing him but we give him another chance since we have some gigs scheduled and don't wanna go through the process of a hasty replacement.
Thing is, dude has issues with me, mostly. I'm the oldest and most experienced in the band and people tend to listen to my suggestions. Thing is, what I suggest is mostly logical, nothing more, nothing less.
LG is a shy, introverted, half-damaged and ego-driven jealous child, at this point. Used to having his way (why the former band members left) and can't take the fact that the rest of band started going another way (mine).

In any case, apart from that, I tend to play more than roots. Which was clear to them from the get-go. I don't overplay but I'm more on the melodic side and don't like to shadow the guitars and just boom-boom away on the root notes all day. Everyone seemed to be ok with it. Moving forward... but not so much.
Suddenly, it's "oh Gothic you're kinda overplaying". First it was "playful" but I always detected a lot of truth (in their minds) in there.

Things flare up at some point while recording a single, where everyone was ok with what I played. It wasn't excessive, it was tasteful, according to everyone. When the time comes for the final mix, all I hear is mud from the bass. You really couldn't discern the notes. It was mostly just there to push air through the subwoofers. I protested and brought forth examples (mostly old time rock and metal) where the bass was audible. I got pushback.

They insist on restricting themselves by trying to fit into a very specific music/genre mold they call "modern" and refuse to understand that, the stuff they wanna sound like have bass players that shadow the guitars. And are, of course, buried in the mix. I do NOT want to be that guy. I made it clear. No progress after that.

And fast forward to today. I just gave up. I resigned. The hang's ok, they're friends after all and I like hanging out with them, but I outright told them that I'm there just for the beer and the hang. I'm of course staying for the connections and "air time", "circulation", if you will, as well.
They just want someone to fill some low frequencies. I resigned to playing the simplest version of whatever we're playing. I mean, dead boring root pumping and nothing more. Nobody noticed.

I know where I stand with them, and sadly, this has been the case with most every band I've ever been in. And also, the reason I'd resigned from getting into bands some years ago. It's just sad, and what's even sadder is that, trying to get something of my own together, finding band members that share the same vision is just plain impossible over here. Small country, smallish town and whatever else that entails.

Anyway, that's my rant. However made it to the end, kudos!

play them some Nolly Getgood(Periphery)... Modern and def not just roots...

 

[Loring]

You know, I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about constructive criticism from other players. Maybe they actually know something you don't. If I disagree about something I'll say so, but if what you're playing isn't working for everyone else, then you either respect your bandmates or you don't. And those who don't don't find themselves in bands too long.

That said, if this is a typical example of what you do in that one song, I think they're nuts. It's not like they're playing AC/DC style music. I'd tell them, "If you think sacrificing someone else's good part will make your good part sound more amazing, think again."

THIS!

I wish I could have super liked your last quote!