I'm curious. If this was a classroom situation in high school I have to believe this teacher also taught other musicians, keyboardists, horn players, etc. What was given to the other musicians in this school as a means of learning new songs?
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Just curious... Can anyone here sight-read tab?
- Thread starter vindibona1
- Start date
There's not always a recording available. The most obvious example is when you're the one playing the recording session for a new piece of music. A perhaps less obvious example is when you're handed music for the first time at a rehearsal or gig and expected to read it.
Have you seen the way they write tabs on Songster? It does show rhythm. And yes, I can sight read it pretty well.
I can read tabs and play at the same time pretty reliably. Now, the thing is that people say tab don't have any rhythm and such. But you can add rhythm to tab. You can write it in any way shape or form you want. Tabs have the advantage of showing you exactly which note to play on a guitar / bass neck. That can help with trying to understand complicated lines and how to play them efficientely, if you can't look at how the composer played it.
I can also read standard notation (as I was one of the few people in school that chose music), but definitely not sight reading it.
However, I found that I can deliver the most consistent performance if I simply just learn and play by ear and tabs are generally a last ditch effort if I seriously don't get what someone is playing. Don't really learn anything with standard notation.
As I recall he taught sections of guitar 1, 2 and so on which included notation, music theory, etc... The guitar ensemble class I was in was an audition group with the sole focus of performance, which I assume is why he went the tab route.
And of course there were normal band, orchestra, and piano lab classes at the school where music was taught and performed the traditional ways.
Without rhythm you can't sight read in standard notation or tab. Many tabs online don't have rhythm and so they are incomplete. Many online tabs suffer from several (many) other problems regardless of whether they have rhythm lol.
But there are exceptions. For instance:
Many YouTube play-thru videos come with complete tab as well... and many have both.
I read standard notation when I play sax and other wind instruments, and deal almost exclusively in tab on bass. As long as they're complete, I can sight-read either... with the standard caveats that go with complexity and number of previous play-thrus.
A downside of tab is that there's no universal language... so if a key isn't included, you might not know what the symbology represents. But they're usually not that difficult to figure out. But an upside is that they're extremely compact in terms of file sizes and I don't need any special apps to edit and access them on a device.
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I do most of my learning by ear, but I find the tabs useful to fill in missing bits that I may have trouble with. If I use them while playing a song, they are usually strictly as points of reference in those more problematic bits.
tab isn't really for sight reading. it's for working things out. I can not sight read tab, but there definitely are people who've learned tab really well who can kinda sight read it. There are missing pieces with tab though, so if you sight read from it entirely, you can miss information that you only can pickup by listening to the recording (or original performer in front of you, if you are lucky).
But it's an invaluable tool, for sure
But it's an invaluable tool, for sure
and the definition of sight reading, as was mentioned by others here also (so I'm just repeating a thought already presented), is "look at printed out music and read it purely by sight, without ever having heard it and having no idea of what it should sound like". That's my wording... but it is the generally accepted meaning.
It also kinda means "do it right the first time, without having looked through it before", although there is room for error there that doesn't mean you aren't still sight reading. Playing mistakes don't deter from sight reading ability. But they can prevent you from getting hired again ;-)
So no, you cannot literally sight read from tab. it is missing too much information.
It also kinda means "do it right the first time, without having looked through it before", although there is room for error there that doesn't mean you aren't still sight reading. Playing mistakes don't deter from sight reading ability. But they can prevent you from getting hired again ;-)
So no, you cannot literally sight read from tab. it is missing too much information.
that's simply because the music of the time was extremely limited as far as what was allowed, and accepted. Therefore there is enough information there to determine what and how to play it, since you can only play it one way, really, given the time period, the instrument, and the purpose for that instrument to play that music.
Once you get out of such a very tightly enclosed box that describes the missing information without needing it to be transcribed, you no longer know what to do with tab music.
Lute music isn't tab in the sense we are talking about today.
so where are the rests? The articulation?You guys keep saying "tabs don't convey any information about rhythm or note duration" but they absolutely do, if done properly, as demonstrated above by @nnnnnn.
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Unpopular opinion: I find (properly written) tabs superior to standard notation and easier to sight-read, because they tell you exactly how the piece is supposed to be played, not how it should sound like.
They convey more information, because everything you have on a standard notation sheet, you can have on a tab, but definitely not the other way around.
This comes at a cost : you don't really get to choose the fingering on the spot (open string ? 5th fret of the string above?), unless you change the tab obviously, or if you're proficient enough to sight-transpose it
Hybrid notations exist, in which the tab is a suggestion of how to physically approach the piece ; these should make everyone happy.
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true, but that was taken care of in sheet music hundreds of years ago. one of the first things you learn to read on piano and violin is the fingering. on violin also the string name is listed where it isn't obvious from fingering information. And fortunately, once you get above a junior level on classical instruments, you are expected to work out your own best fingers and string choices for every part, rather than just doing what you are told to do.
And if it has, it’s usually expensive. We pay pay anywhere from $250 to $400 PER song for rhythm and horn section charts. Expensive for sure, but it is extremely efficient.
Everybody learns it on their own, and at practice it’s a run through once or twice and it’s good to go. It’s an eleven member band and sure don’t want 11 different interpretations of what or how to play.
I just want to post something here. I'm a violinist, as well, so I want to show a piece of violin music. I am NOT suggesting that the musical example I'm attaching is easily played... it is one of the most difficult pieces written for violin. But it demonstrates exactly why standard classical music notation works, versus tab.
This is the first page (not quite the entire first page) of the Bartok Violin Concerto No. 2, first movement, the solo violin part.
I can look at that and understand exactly how to play it, what exact rhythm, bowing (direction), articulation (start bow on string or off string, riccochet (bouncing the bow), long, short, pizz, popped (a.k.a. "Bartok Pizz.", a.k.a. popping on a bass guitar)... no not all of these are on this page), dynamics (loudness and gradual changes in loudness), tempo and tempo changes, which finger to use, which string to play the note on, the measure number so when the conductor needs to rehearse a section at bar 22, everyone knows what to do at that point.... and so on.
Playing this exactly as written makes a perfect reproduction of the original performance, other than the fact that every player plays a little differently (vibrato speed and style, tone, etc).
This is not a strange example. It is a perfectly standard common example of sheet music for string players, which all of us here are (electric bass is a string instrument).
This information cannot be documented and sight read with TAB, without changing "what tab is" so much that it is, effectively, standard music notation as in this example.
Oh - and yes I know it is possibly an extreme example compared to what most of us play on the bass typically. But it demonstrates the limitations in tab versus the lack of limitations.... and the accepted norms that all violinists understand when reading music.... of standard notation.
This is the first page (not quite the entire first page) of the Bartok Violin Concerto No. 2, first movement, the solo violin part.
I can look at that and understand exactly how to play it, what exact rhythm, bowing (direction), articulation (start bow on string or off string, riccochet (bouncing the bow), long, short, pizz, popped (a.k.a. "Bartok Pizz.", a.k.a. popping on a bass guitar)... no not all of these are on this page), dynamics (loudness and gradual changes in loudness), tempo and tempo changes, which finger to use, which string to play the note on, the measure number so when the conductor needs to rehearse a section at bar 22, everyone knows what to do at that point.... and so on.
Playing this exactly as written makes a perfect reproduction of the original performance, other than the fact that every player plays a little differently (vibrato speed and style, tone, etc).
This is not a strange example. It is a perfectly standard common example of sheet music for string players, which all of us here are (electric bass is a string instrument).
This information cannot be documented and sight read with TAB, without changing "what tab is" so much that it is, effectively, standard music notation as in this example.
Oh - and yes I know it is possibly an extreme example compared to what most of us play on the bass typically. But it demonstrates the limitations in tab versus the lack of limitations.... and the accepted norms that all violinists understand when reading music.... of standard notation.
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You guys keep saying "tabs don't convey any information about rhythm or note duration" but they absolutely do, if done properly, as demonstrated above by @nnnnnn.
View attachment 4693875
Unpopular opinion: I find (properly written) tabs superior to standard notation and easier to sight-read, because they tell you exactly how the piece is supposed to be played, not how it should sound like.
They convey more information, because everything you have on a standard notation sheet, you can have on a tab, but definitely not the other way around.
This comes at a cost : you don't really get to choose the fingering on the spot (open string ? 5th fret of the string above?), unless you change the tab obviously, or if you're proficient enough to sight-transpose it
Hybrid notations exist, in which the tab is a suggestion of how to physically approach the piece ; these should make everyone happy.
View attachment 4693880
While some of the later tabs do in fact have rhythm attached, it stiil has a musicall disconnect. AI disagree entirely with your statement "because they tell you exactly how the piece is supposed to be played, not how it should sound like."
I looked at your standard notation example and immediately identified it as Aulde Lang Syne within 2 seconds just sitting at my computer.
It is acknowledged that written music is only a skelton of the structure. But standard notation contains so much more information, but takes a an experienced musician to decipher the depth and play the music as intended. I have played with some pretty highly skilled music directors, some internationally known. One of my favorites often says "play like it sounds, not like its written". They can do that even if they don't know the piece. The musicians, skilled as they are know exactly what to do and the MD only needs to make some tweaks so everyone is doing the same thing. You are never going to get anything close to solid interpretation with tab unless you know the tune already. And granted, so many tab pieces rely on you knowing the tune.
I suppose it is good to have good tab reading skills because we know the tunes and don't even have to know the notes as long as you can "paint by numbers". And that's the other thing too. Tab, without the abillity to read standard notation or take the time to learn the notes on the fingerboard can be a crippling crutch for some. But then again, some players get along just fine playing by ear, something I could do well at a much younger age, which has diminished with time.
I suppose I should invest some (painful) time using tab, knowing that MY shortcut is just getting hold of a chart with standard notation. But the most important skill I think that Trump's everything is striving to be a musician, not just a bass (or trumpet) player.
Great illustration. The title text was a little blurry, but it's a Bartok piece and the I believe the first two words in Cyrillic say Redacted, Part 1? I couldn't read the rest. Being a trumpet player I haven't been exposed to a lot of Bartok, but was in a performance of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra.
Very similar background as you, @vindibona1 ! I played semi-pro as a tuba player. I did brass quintet and orchestra gigs in the greater Los Angeles area for a couple of years. Definitely, I could sight read fairly well on standard notation, even on bass, but Tab notation always bothered me. I could hardly read it. Good question!
I think there's a big disconnect here, that when some people think "tab" they only think of the 90s and early 00s style text file based tabs. I agree, you can't sight read from those, and they were often full of mistakes, but why would anyone bother with those at all when for a long time now there have been proper tab resources that you can sight read from - as per my previous post, tabs can include rhythm (note durations and rests), articulation, etc.
There are thousands of transcriptions available in tab form with full information included, many done by people who also provide standard notation. They're not text files, they're PDFs, or there is tab software with auto-scrolling, etc.
Well, I would argue that 90% of the notation I’ve come across, even the free stuff, is much more accurate than tab. MUCH, MUCH more accurate. It indicates to me that people who are doing notation know what the heck they are doing much more than the tab crowd.
