Just Got an Ampeg SVT-DI to try out

[Jim C]

Nice playing and thanks for doing this.
My opinion is based using Sony MDR-V6 phones and would have never guessed the following:

Fingers
The Reddi goes the lowest and as pointed out really cops that Motown thing
The PF50 sounded much brighter to me and a a tad less bottom end; thought I would like it more than I did
I liked the SVT-DI very much; slightly better than the PF50 and not as much bottom as the Reddi but believe that wit a little EQ I wouldn't be able to distinguish these 2 in a studio mix
I was sure that I would find the Countryman way to bright and sterile but sure didn't hear it that way; it was really good

Pick
Amazingly I liked the Country Man best!
The PF was my least favorite

Go figure; I have always been a tube guy
I agree with SirMac; the Country Man is the best value on the used market

Price being no object?
The Reddi for the win; any minor differences could be EQ'd to my likeing
This may be true amongst others in a live studio mix but I may be going out on a limb wth this speculation

 

[rodl2005]

They all sound good @JimmyM
Thanks for taking the time
Cool, steady, even playing. Something only a seasoned pro could manage
I could tell a few differences between them, and probly liked the SVT most, but, as you say, with a little EQ the PF50T would easily be the most versatile.
Wish the AU $ wasn't so poorly

 

[sigterm]

The mp3s sounded awesome through my bluetooth beats by Dre, I ran it using the latest version of explorer and I was in the throne room on the other side of the wall where I go for quiet. I can't tell a difference in the red or pf50 either, but I'd be happy with any of them and great tone throughout. But for being flat they're really boomy.

 

[Crunchy Growl]

All four at one time!

 

[JimmyM]

Nice playing and thanks for doing this.
My opinion is based using Sony MDR-V6 phones and would have never guessed the following:

Fingers
The Reddi goes the lowest and as pointed out really cops that Motown thing
The PF50 sounded much brighter to me and a a tad less bottom end; thought I would like it more than I did
I liked the SVT-DI very much; slightly better than the PF50 and not as much bottom as the Reddi but believe that wit a little EQ I wouldn't be able to distinguish these 2 in a studio mix
I was sure that I would find the Countryman way to bright and sterile but sure didn't hear it that way; it was really good

Pick
Amazingly I liked the Country Man best!
The PF was my least favorite

Go figure; I have always been a tube guy
I agree with SirMac; the Country Man is the best value on the used market

Price being no object?
The Reddi for the win; any minor differences could be EQ'd to my likeing
This may be true amongst others in a live studio mix but I may be going out on a limb wth this speculation

Oh sure, with EQ you can do a lot more. That's why boards and amps have them But I'm a bit surprised you liked the Countryman the best, and I'll tell you why...on the tube DI's the high notes don't lose their "bassiness" like they do plugged into the Countryman. It's especially noticeable in a mix...you hear the high notes have actual weight to them and you don't lose the fact that you're playing bass like you do with SS DI's.

 

[JimmyM]

I added a new file to the first post just now...it's called "P - SVT-DI Boost.mp3." The reason I added it is because I was playing around with the switches that turn the tube sound on and off in the XLR out and thru jack, and I noticed that when you turn on the tube sound in the thru jack, you get a fairly significant volume boost and a tonal change out of the XLR out. I just did it so I haven't had much critical listening time on it, but I at least have noticed a slight increase in treble. Interested to hear what you all think about it.

RE: the thru jack, as most of you know, the REDDI doesn't pass the tube sound out of the thru jack, only the PA. The SVT-DI, however, gives you the option to have it or not have it. But I'm still in "jury out" mode about it. I just tried it in my PF-350 and PF-800, and while it does add in some tubey warmth, it also boosts the top end in a way that I don't know if I like. On my gig last Friday, I was running it with the thru jack getting the tube, and I noticed something was up with my tone there, too. But I think I like the sound from the XLR jack with the thru jack getting the tube better. It's not a huge deal to re-EQ the amp to suit the tonal change, I guess, but there definitely is a change.

Anyway, you all compare the two SVT-DI tracks and tell me what you think.

 

[sheltjo6]

I bought one earlier this year.
I’ve only used it on one gig, but it sounds great.

Thanks JimmyM for posting the mp3 files.
If you ever get a Khan VTDI, would love to hear it compared to the Ampeg VTDI.

 

[Jim C]

But I'm a bit surprised you liked the Countryman the best

Only on the track played with a pick

To me, with headphones, there is more definition and doesn't get plinky; best example is :48 - :52
Maybe just hitting the front end of the Reddi too hard?
Of course, we all hear it differently

On the latest track, I hear just a tiny bit of distortion (not bad distortion) and less definition (also not bad)
Could the level be lower than on the Reddi track?
I didn't check with any VU or peak meter just conscious of louder can also seem better

Bottom line; any one of these could be on a number #1 hit
On "Made to Love Her" these tracks have more definition and maintain the soul better than it was cut in the first place (minus the chicken grease of course and compared to this MP3)


Really love thse real world comparisons
I wonder what it would sound like recorded with something like a cheapo Whirlwind Imp DI?

 

[MarkA]

...And look, I made them into MP3's and I don't want to hear any crap about it. They are high quality mono MP3's at 160k bitrate, which translates to 320K if it was stereo, and I used the LAME encoder, so the sound quality is there and it takes up way less space on the TB server. However, if anyone knows a better way to post audio files on a forum these days since Soundcloud won't let you directly link anymore, I'm willing to upload the WAV's to it.

Hey, Jimmy. Thanks for doing this. I will give the tracks a listen when I have my headphones handy and can give them proper attention.

As for Soundcloud, I don't know about posting links, but I took a quick look at the first thread in my sig and the embedded Soundcloud playlist that I clicked on there still seemed to work, so you could do that. However, I am pretty sure (not 100% positive, but I do recall reading somewhere) that Soundcloud plays a 128 Kbps stereo mp3 (or something similar), so if your files are indeed the equivalent of 320 Kbps, they would be higher fidelity.

For what it's worth, I did find that when I uploaded an uncompressed WAV file to Soundcloud and let it do the conversion, I got slightly better results than when uploading an already compressed file (don't know if it resamples/recompresses, but seems to be something like that).

 

[JimmyM]

Really love thse real world comparisons
I wonder what it would sound like recorded with something like a cheapo Whirlwind Imp DI?

Stay tuned.

 

[CapnSev]

Agreed 100%. But I bought it with the specific purpose of using it as a speaker DI for my SVT and B-15, so I'm not disappointed to have spent the money for it. But yes, I always hated DI's till I got introduced to the idea of tube DI's with real transformers and speaker DI'ing tube amps.

Absolutely. I fake the tube feel as best I can these days with my compressor and the VLE on my Markbass Super Booster (which is also my DI). The compressor adds a lot a fatness and a little grit, and the VLE is my “cab sim”
if you will. If I want a little more tube flavor, I’ll throw the ART Tube in there, but I don’t feel like it’s that much of a necessity.

Anyway, point is: DIs are great. They’re one of the best things ever created for the bass. With a little eq work, or a nicer DI though, you can turn “convenient” into “holy crap”!

 

[SactoBass]

Finally got my hands on a friend's old Ampeg SVT-DI yesterday and I'll get to keep it for a week or three. If you're not familiar with it, it's a tube DI utilizing a 12AU7 (in this case a Groove Tubes) with a rather large output transformer. It's not as big as the transformer in the A-Designs REDDI but it's pretty big. Ampeg discontinued the SVT-DI in the mid-2000's but it still exists as the Khan Vacuum Tube DI, a company I have no relationship with but is run by Obeid Khan, a longtime former Ampeg engineer. A little more streamlined than the SVT-DI but it's the same otherwise. Naturally, I took it right to the gig I had yesterday and tried it, and it sounded absolutely terrific. So I thought I'd make a little audio comparo using the SVT-DI and REDDI, and I threw in the PF-50T just to give some perspective on an actual tube amp as well.

I used my well-modded 76 Precision with EMG Geezer Butler P with a pretty dead set of Dunlop Super Bright nickels. I matched gain levels as close as I could but no other processing was added. For the PF-50T, I used the output transformer XLR out and set the knobs at noon and left the ultra filters off. And look, I made them into MP3's and I don't want to hear any crap about it. They are high quality mono MP3's at 160k bitrate, which translates to 320K if it was stereo, and I used the LAME encoder, so the sound quality is there and it takes up way less space on the TB server. However, if anyone knows a better way to post audio files on a forum these days since Soundcloud won't let you directly link anymore, I'm willing to upload the WAV's to it.

Very interested to hear what others think but I'll tell you what I think...first off, I think the REDDI and the nooned PF-50T sound pretty much the same. Makes sense since the PF-50T has flat response with knobs at noon, and the REDDI is a flat response DI version of a tube amp. The SVT-DI has that tube amp sound as well, but it's a little more subdued in the highs and high mids and maybe has a tad more low end (although I must admit to not being so good about perceiving minor differences in low end response without hearing it in a band context), which coincidentally, is how I usually set my PF-50T when I use it, although I might add a little more bass than that depending on the room...sometimes a lot more...whoa Nellie!

They've each got little things about them that some may prefer over the other but they are all top of the line sound quality with real tube amp sound and feel. I am very fortunate to own two of them, but I will be a little sad to send the SVT-DI back to its owner when the time comes. It's a little different from the REDDI, but I think the sound quality is right up there with it. Still, first world problem.

Oh, and before anyone gets all panty bunched that I'm starting a thread about an Ampeg product, the SVT-DI has been discontinued for years, I know of no plans to bring it or a similar product out in the future, and though you can still get it through Khan Audio, I do not know Mr. Khan or have any sort of relationship with his company. In other words, I did it all for you, you ungrateful unruly mob!

EDIT: Just added a Countryman Type 85 active DI to give everyone a sample of what that sounds like in comparison to the tube DI's.

NEW EDIT: Just added a second SVT-DI file called "P - SVT-DI Boost." This is due to the switch that turns the tube sound on and off in the thru jack adding a fairly hefty gain boost and changing the sound a little. It's a tad brighter to my ears, but sounds really cool as well. You won't hear the gain boost as I tried to match it to the original tracks, but you can hear how the sound has changed.

View attachment 3113135

Thanks @JimmyM for doing this excellent comparison and posting the results for TB'ers' benefit. IMO, this is one of the greatest uses of the Talkbass forum!

(oh, and I like *all* of the tubers!)

 

[JimmyM]

@Jim C , just added an IMP 2 to the comparo in the first post. Surprisingly, I'm liking the sound better this time than I ever have. Still think it sounds like poop compared to the tube stuff but if the Imp 2 was all I had to record with, I could still make a usable track. I would have to doctor the crap out of it, but it's not as bad as I once thought it was. I still think the Director is the much better of the two cheapo Whirlwinds, though.

 

[JimmyM]

Anyone else here get a weird feeling listening to the PF-50T sample, and not getting the sound of the speaker mated to it? I just wanna throw a big old floppy 12 or 15 inch cab in front of that thing. It sounds kinda gross to me without a speaker in the signal chain.

Had to address this post because it made me laugh I don't think there's a bass tone on earth that can't be improved by running it through a good cab and micing it. But no, I didn't get that at all out of the PF-50T track. I thought it was as good as any of them.

 

[Jim C]

@Jim C , just added an IMP 2 to the comparo in the first post. Surprisingly, I'm liking the sound better this time than I ever have. Still think it sounds like poop compared to the tube stuff but if the Imp 2 was all I had to record with, I could still make a usable track. I would have to doctor the crap out of it, but it's not as bad as I once thought it was. I still think the Director is the much better of the two cheapo Whirlwinds, though.

Wow
Just wow
I had this memory of wet blanket over the speakers and no definition
It's not bad at all!
OK, not incredible but not horrible for a DI that has spent thousands of hours doubling as a door stop...

 

[JimmyM]

So here's a weird dilemma I would have if I were to keep the SVT-DI and use it on gigs...I greatly prefer the sound of the XLR out when the tube switches for both the XLR and thru jack are on, but I greatly prefer the sound of the thru jack into my amps with the tube switch off. The thru jack tube switch adds a little tubey sheen but it also adds a buttload of 800hz to the sound in my amps, and I had to bring the mid knob of my PF800 down from noon to about 9:00 in order to get the same tone. Fortunately, it has an 800hz setting on the mid selector. But on the PF350, which has a mid knob fixed at 500hz, matching the bypassed tone was impossible, so using it or any other amps without an 800hz setting or thereabouts would be a major tonal struggle. I like 800hz but a little goes a very long way.

So if I were to make an idealized version of the SVT-DI, I would prefer it to have the XLR sound of both tube switches on no matter what, and I would prefer that the thru jack would either tone down the giant mid boost or just make it bypassed like the REDDI. A lot of folks complain that the REDDI only passes the tube circuitry into the XLR and not the thru jack, but I've always seen it as a smart move just because of what's going on with the SVT-DI allowing it as an option...you can't get (IMHO) the best tone for the house without jacking your amp sound. I would much rather optimize my house signal and keep my amp sound the same than have a tubey sound that's jacked. The tubey sheen does seem to make an improvement otherwise, but it's not going to turn your micro into a tube amp. As long as I use the amps that have an 800hz setting and stay away from the ones that don't, I could deal, but I'd rather not have to.

 

[MtManiac]

Any chance you can add a SCR-DI clip also?

 

[Jack]

...I greatly prefer the sound of the XLR out when the tube switches for both the XLR and thru jack are on, but I greatly prefer the sound of the thru jack into my amps with the tube switch off.

Are they not completely independent? I thought the thru switch just touched the thru and the xlr switch just touched the xlr?

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Thanks for what you've done on this thread, @JimmyM! I'm getting quite the education.

I've rarely played gigs with PA support. On the few I have, I've used my Radial JDI or the folks running the mixing board have had me plug into their Countryman DI.

Excellent thread, Jimmy!

 

[frankie5string]

Ask Kahn (Kahhhhnnn!) if that bump at 800 can be bypassed similar to the old Hartke 3500 trick, where you could jumper around the EQ component of the tube driver circuit. I can't see how the glass alone could create that 800hz bump. That's likely something in the circuit added to give it "character."

...thru jack tube switch adds a little tubey sheen but it also adds a buttload of 800hz to the sound in my amps, and I had to bring the mid knob of my PF800 down ...