Just in case you forgot.....15's RULE

[B-string]

The trouble with "fixing" that table to be accurate is you would need to be manufacturer and model specific. There is no "standard" actual cone diameter to basket size. T/S specs when listing displacement also take into account cone depth as well as Xmax.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Hmm, I’ve been searching the internet and it seems the other charts, tables, calculators, articles, and etc match/agree with the cone area formula and table posted - why is that?

 

[Passinwind]

Hmm, I’ve been searching the internet and it seems the other charts, tables, calculators, articles, and etc match/agree with the cone area formula and table posted - why is that?

That formula is fine for a circle Joe, and that will translate to effective surface area of a truncated cone pretty well from what I can see. You just need to measure the actual moving part of whatever speakers you have on hand and you'll quickly see what's what. One easy way to approximate actual cone face diameter is to look at the baffle cutout measurement in the spec sheets. That will typically still be a little too big, but it'll be much closer than calling the cone in a 15" speaker 15 inches in diameter.

 

[Joe Louvar]

The formula is fine Joe, you just need to measure the actual moving part of whatever speakers you have on hand and you'll quickly see what's what. One easy way to approximate actual cone diameter is to look at the baffle cutout measurement in the spec sheets. That will typically still be a little too big, but it'll be much closer than calling the cone in a 15" speaker 15 inches in diameter.

Ok, thank you. Would it be fair to say - in general, the table gives a ballpark idea of compared cone area?

 

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

With or without roadies?

Id say how ever your current gigging situation is. Iv'e never found them harder to move than any other cabs.

I was using a GK 115 Combo, but found that when I added a borrowed SWR 2x10 I got a much smoother / deeper bass response. Head to head, the SWR was better for what I wanted.

I didn't care much for the last GK 115 i played through either. Not much experience with SWR aside from an LA series combo. Having only played on those manufactures entry level products, doesn't really form a solid opinion for me.

15s Rule!!!

Why yes they do

They also have poorer dispersion than a smaller speaker. Just sayin. IMO marrying yourself to a specific speaker size is just silly, find a cabinet that you like and go with that, regardless of what size speakers it has in it.

That said, I currently use two 115's.

Dispersion is definitely worth factoring in when deciding on cabs and speakers. We use a pretty basic PA with out subs.

A 15" by itself....nada. Never heard one that had a nice tight punchy sound with lows that are not muddy. I like to be able to actually hear the notes. Not just feel them!

I switched over to 10"s back in 1988 (my first was a Trace Elliot 4x10) and have not looked back!
!

Speakers have come quite a long way since then.

I'm probably the black sheep here, but I stopped using cabs, for the most part, at gigs anymore. I have a 2x10 on stage, but usually just some volume for a mic.

I don't see the point of big and bulky cabs on stage that throw stupid volume. That's what P.A.'s are for, and my in-ears give me more than enough bass. Just look at Dream Theater and Rush....

I've noticed a lot of venues using IEM's lately. Did you ever get the feeling like its a bedroom practice when using them? It hard for me to get used to.

Many people listen with their eyes

And they end up with a 410 on top of a 115

No fair being open-minded and tolerant. If you can't be as dogmatic as the OP, just don't play!

MM

I hardly consider that Dogmatic. I simply stated that bigger speakers move more air than smaller speakers of the same type. ie Beta 15> beta 12> beta 10 for moving air and for getting more volume from a budget perspective.

 

[Passinwind]

Ok, thank you. Would it be fair to say - in general, the table gives a ballpark idea of compared cone area?

If by ballpark you mean off by 30% or so, sure.

 

[René_Julien]

No fair being open-minded and tolerant. If you can't be as dogmatic as the OP, just don't play!

MM

Okay okay... I'll drop 18" and 5" from the list. Better?


Actually I played because I ordered a 1x15 on friday and I should have it here this week. So I hope (this particular) 15" rule.

After that I might do a DIY multiple 8" project. So where is that 8" rule thread?

 

[Oobly]

15s rule for the low end... They start beaming at a little over 1kHz, so if you want power AND dispersion, you need other driver sizes also. This is best effected in a 3-way cab with each driver handling a different frequency range.

So, for me it really depends on the cab, but I love my fEARful 15/6/1!

 

[BogeyBass]

15's rule, so shut it

unless of course we take certain things into consideration like ....uhhhhhh

what was I saying,....... oh yah 15's rule

 

[Korladis]

They also have poorer dispersion than a smaller speaker. Just sayin. IMO marrying yourself to a specific speaker size is just silly, find a cabinet that you like and go with that, regardless of what size speakers it has in it.

That said, I currently use two 115's.

Yeah, but tons of speaker cabs with smaller speakers arrange them horizontally, thus negating the dispersion advantage.

I'm not opposed to using 10"s or 12"s, but I use a single 15" cab for small gigs and a 2x15 for bigger gigs. Or just louder ones. Or really any gig where I can think up even a flimsy justification. I love my SVT15E, but my 2000S is just so... authoritative when I'm playing loud. It's not even a case of massive lows or anything, as it's mostly midrange, but it does have a very solid low end, yet at the same time is incredibly clear sounding.

Of course, if I add another 2x15, which I'm going to, I'll have absolutely awful dispersion, but oh well.

 

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

15's rule, so shut it

unless of course we take certain things into consideration like ....uhhhhhh

what was I saying,....... oh yah 15's rule

How did those Faital 15FX560's work for you? Thats an impressive driver on paper and on modeling software.

 

[Korladis]

I'm probably the black sheep here, but I stopped using cabs, for the most part, at gigs anymore. I have a 2x10 on stage, but usually just some volume for a mic.

I don't see the point of big and bulky cabs on stage that throw stupid volume. That's what P.A.'s are for, and my in-ears give me more than enough bass. Just look at Dream Theater and Rush....

My cab is part of my instrument.

Also, I'm not playing Dream Theater or Rush type of music, though I like both those bands.

 

[Korladis]

ok ok, what if your rocking a 5-string with a very low tuning? Can 10 inch drivers handle the low frequency as easy as a 15 inch can???

Some can, yes. I have no doubt that my friends SVT-410HLF handles extreme low frequencies better than either of my cabs. Luckily, even though I play a bass tuned EADG and a bass tuned BEAD, I live mostly in the mids, and don't need those sub frequencies. I like a bit more of a dirty, old school grindy tone.

 

[BogeyBass]

How did those Faital 15FX560's work for you? Thats an impressive driver on paper and on modeling software.

Lets just say that I sold my 3015LF's and the Faital's are not for sale.

 

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

Lets just say that I sold my 3015LF's and the Faital's are not for sale.

Kind of what I expected
The next build will be a cab for one of those

 

[BogeyBass]

Kind of what I expected
The next build will be a cab for one of those

Meh, something like that, I spent to much effort
in my build pretending like I didnt know what I was doing.
So maybe I will pretend like I know what I am doing next time

yah do it, and if yah do...Tell them Large Marge sent yah

Edit> oh yah..... 15's rule

 

[Joe Louvar]

If by ballpark you mean off by 30% or so, sure.

Well then, please correct the table and repost it for me and everyone. Thanks.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Okay okay... I'll drop 18" and 5" from the list. Better?


Actually I played because I ordered a 1x15 on friday and I should have it here this week. So I hope (this particular) 15" rule.

After that I might do a DIY multiple 8" project. So where is that 8" rule thread?

Order two of them (8 ohm each) - 15(s)

 

[wcriley]

Well then, please correct the table and repost it for me and everyone. Thanks.

Why repost a table that is completely meaningless?
If someone wants to know "how much air" a particular driver can move, they need to look at the driver's specs.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Order two of them (8 ohm each) - 15(s)

Why repost a table that is completely meaningless?
If someone wants to know "how much air" a particular driver can move, they need to look at the driver's specs.

Exactly. The numbers quoted in that table dont compare to real world drivers. Each model can be a little different in movable surface area, and xMax plays just as big a role as that area which is driver specific once again. What would be useful would be a list of driver displacements by model. It would still be a ball park comparison, as cab size and port tuning are once again just as important.

Comparing a so-so driver in a incredibly engineered box to a amazing driver in a crappy box, one might assume that the first driver is better than the second. In that specific case sure, the cab/speaker as a whole is better, but if both boxes have as much attention to their designs it will be a different story.


The benefit to a surface area table is that commercial manufacturers dont publish things like driver xMax or mechanical power handling limits, or SPL charts. In those cases a surface area comparison is about as good as you can get with out actually trying out the cabs in question.