Because it’s a good visual aid - and when done it's still going to prove/show the main point.
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Just in case you forgot.....15's RULE
- Thread starter Lowactnsatsfctn
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Because it’s a good visual aid - and when done it's still going to prove/show the main point.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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I gave you the tools to do so yourself if you really think there's value in it. I don't share that opinion, so I'm out.
13.2 inch drivers do rule though, I agree.
- Mar 8, 2011
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Passinwind said:I gave you the tools to do so yourself if you really think there's value in it. I don't share that opinion, so I'm out.
13.2 inch drivers do rule though, I agree.
Haha!
Naw, I aint busting your chops about that, bro...it's just "a 15 with a 410..." What does that mean? Typically it's a horrid combination for very good reason...but there was no mention of WHICH 15 with WHAT 410?!...kinda misleading for a beginner wanting to learn about this stuff...it suggests that any 15 and any 410 is awesome together...it was a statement with a complete lack of any actual meaning, and can lead folks down some silly, money wasting paths...that's all
Typically a horrid combination! Geez!
First my statement was in general. Of course you need to do your homework in regards to selecting the right speaker combinations. But a horrid combination, man you are way off course. That is a very common setup you see pro bass players using at live shows.
That is an ideal setup if you are using an amp with Bi-Amp/crossover functions or two separate heads.
Years back I used when I was touring I used a GK 800RB which is a Bi-amp with a fullrange crossover. That sat on a SWR 4x10 cab which sat on a SWR 1x15 cabinet. Sent all the deep low end (around 50Hz or so) to the 15 and the rest to the 4x10. Killer combo.
So saying a 4x10 and a 1x15 is a horrid combination is even more misleading for a beginner.
Here a couple guys you might recognize (out of many) that use those HORRID combinations:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I don't need that much volume.Order two of them (8 ohm each) - 15(s)
But I do subscribe to the "matching cab" route. Ever since I started playing in 1999.
Not because I knew anything about acoustics back then. I just liked the way it looked aesthetically.
(Disclosure: back then as a 17yo naive kid I did thought that 10"s sounded better than 15"s.)
It's like comparing car engines just based on number of pistons and the diameter (bore) of the pistons.
Without taking in consideration the stroke... the up and down movement. (Like Xmax in speakers)
And without taking in consideration the computer management of the engine. (Like how a cab is designed)
And without taking in consideration if the engine is normally aspirated or has a turbo. (Tweeters ???)
Okay... the analogy is starting to flaw... but I started out good.
Maybe you can make a table with the surface areas of the speakers as one parameter and a generic Xmax scale as the other parameter. That'll show the displacement of the speaker.
But then again... there is still a lot more to it.
Typically a horrid combination! Geez!
First my statement was in general. Of course you need to do your homework in regards to selecting the right speaker combinations. But a horrid combination, man you are way off course. That is a very common setup you see pro bass players using at live shows.
That is an ideal setup if you are using an amp with Bi-Amp/crossover functions or two separate heads.
Years back I used when I was touring I used a GK 800RB which is a Bi-amp with a fullrange crossover. That sat on a SWR 4x10 cab which sat on a SWR 1x15 cabinet. Sent all the deep low end (around 50Hz or so) to the 15 and the rest to the 4x10. Killer combo.
So saying a 4x10 and a 1x15 is a horrid combination is even more misleading for a beginner.
Here a couple guys you might recognize (out of many) that use those HORRID combinations:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I dont care who endorses it, or which pro's use it. The 410 and 115 pairing have a slew of issues. Those pro's sound isnt even from their full rigs is one speaker miced and then sent through a ton of processing and into a PA.
Saying you like a certain diameter speaker over another is like saying that you prefer to carry water in a certain diameter container. My 10" container is 18" deep stainless steel with a padded handle, meanwhile you're transporting water in a pair of 15" paper plates cause you heard that size can handle the heavy water better. Guess who's gonna have a better experience? Diameter alone is meaningless.
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
ClassicJazz said:
It's all just opinions, man...I'm not trying to fight anyone...those pictures are dudes in front of large commercial cabs, working for the company...I've been a full time pro player for 22 years now and I've stood in front of the pictures and smiled in exchange for free stuff.
Again, it's just opinions,a and in my opinion, that stack rarely works...I'd rather believe science and my ears than advertisements
either way, the cone area relationship difference remains across the table.
13.2 inch drivers do rule though, I agree.
Smile.
+1
I said in another thread that it's mostly advertising and marketing... to show more products (variety) that manufacturer offers. I don't need a variety of tools... just the right tools.
And pro's like that actually don't depend that much on their onstage rig. A weekend warrior on the other end.
I hate tweeters.
That's a matter of taste... and we are in comlete agreement on that.
René_Julien;12851244 said:...It's like comparing car engines just based on number of pistons and the diameter (bore) of the pistons.
Without taking in consideration the stroke... the up and down movement. (Like Xmax in speakers)
And without taking in consideration the computer management of the engine. (Like how a cab is designed)
And without taking in consideration if the engine is normally aspirated or has a turbo. (Tweeters ???)
Okay... the analogy is starting to flaw... but I started out good.
Maybe change the word "Tweeters" to "Excursion Limited Power Handling". Still not perfect, but everything else is spot on.
Of course - their bass rigs on stage are for them and their band mates and the PA is for you in the audience. And the pros in those pics using mixed cabs do so because they like them. BTW, Ive used both mixed and matched cab and unless biamping I prefer matched cabs (15s) - however, thats just my personal preference.
Sorry, but they are issues if you don't know what you are doing. I never had any with my larger 2-cab rigs.
Please educate us as to what exactly are these "issues". Those beginners listening in as well as myself would like to know.
No, no, this thread is about 15s - please lets stay on topic and not derail this thread with mixed/matched cabs and etc. Thanks.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/mixing-cabinets-phase-response-607556/
I loved reading this explanation by Bill Fitzmaurice.
This is science and can't be disputed.
Basicly... the simple answer, the different speakers will be out of phase which is not ideal. And offer the whole frequensy spectrum how much (or how little) they are out of phase changes also. (On a few frequency points they might be in phase though.)
To an audio engineer or acoustic engineer this is a big faux-pas.
What can be discussed is the results you get with either mixing or matchin cabs.
You have had no bad results. Good for you. If it sounds good no problem and rock on man.
Because my personal preferation is matching cab doesn't mean I am going to dictate you to change your rig. Or would claim that your rig sounds more horrid than mine.
If you are okay with your rig that's all that matters.
And for beginners this discussion might be useful. Let them absorb the information. Try different setups out. And make up their own mind based on the theory we discus, and the practical experience actually playing through bass rigs.
Well there are bout 1,000 posts on this topic already but here we go again.
First and for most is power handling. You are asking a single 15" driver to compete with four 10" drivers. Regardless of manufacturers specs (which are thermal and bull $hit anyways) the 15" driver will reach it mechanical limitations before the four 10" drivers do so.
Next is sensitivity, the 410 in most cases be way louder than the 115, making it pointless to add to the set up as you really are not hearing the 115, and only hearing the 410 as it is closer to your ear. The audience isnt hearing much if anything from your 115.
On to phasing issues. Mixing cabs can increase the phasing issues that are heard out in the room. You may not notice this standing in front of your rig, but you can have null spots when you are in the audience.
Sure if you are running through the PA this isnt an issue, but if you are using the pa why do you need both cabs anyways?
René_Julien;12851399 said:
Read the discussions/debates about mixing/matching cabs, phasing, dispersion, and etc, etc between agedhorse and Bill Fitzmaurice.
Anyway, back to 15s Rule.
