Just opened up my 210MBE...

[MIJ-VI]

Perfect for heavy metal.

Then they screw up the works by making it a 4x configuration. But like I said, done right as a column no one would buy it.

Yup.

If anyone here is doing a pawn shop patrol for a bargoon guitar rig:

A pair of YSC-3 4x8 PA columns...

...and an all-tube YVM-1 Voice Master PA amp might be worth plugging into.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Dispersion. It's not about the tone, it's about the dispersion angle for live use.

+1. The use of tens, twelves and fifteens for guitar goes back to the 1950s when they had to use them because of the limitations of the driver technology of that time. Those limitations went away by 1970, but by then the die was cast. Guitar players continue to demand them because it's what they think they need. Before I quit playing guitar I used a pair of Eminence eights and they worked very well, super overdrive tone without going stupid loud.

 

[MIJ-VI]

+1. The use of tens, twelves and fifteens for guitar goes back to the 1950s when they had to use them because of the limitations of the driver technology of that time. Those limitations went away by 1970, but by then the die was cast. Guitar players continue to demand them because it's what they think they need. Before I quit playing guitar I used a pair of Eminence eights and they worked very well, super overdrive tone without going stupid loud.

Model number please.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Model number please.

That was ten years ago, I doubt the same model is still being produced.

 

[agreatheight]

+1. The use of tens, twelves and fifteens for guitar goes back to the 1950s when they had to use them because of the limitations of the driver technology of that time. Those limitations went away by 1970, but by then the die was cast. Guitar players continue to demand them because it's what they think they need. Before I quit playing guitar I used a pair of Eminence eights and they worked very well, super overdrive tone without going stupid loud.

So what would be better for dispersion, multiple vertically stacked speakers or a single speaker?

 

[Derek Kiernan]

The trick is you want to keep horizontal dispersion wide and sometimes limit vertical dispersion. A single speaker and a vertical stack (if they're all the same speaker) are going to have similar horizontal dispersion.

I'd really love if anyone could point to a 6 or 8 inch driver that wasn't just good for metal tone

 

[rpsands]

Jensen is one of the only companies making 8's that I can see. This sounds pretty damn good to me:
http://www.jensentone.com/c8r.php

Maybe turn up the low mids some if you want to get rid of the scoop =)

Weber seems to make them too but I don't see FR charts or specs so hard to tell what they'd sound like:
Link Removed

 

[MIJ-VI]

Eminence claims that these 8's are good for use in line arrays:
http://eminence.com/proseries.asp?speaker_size=8

--------

This is interesting. It's a 6" mid with its own built-in back for use in PA or bass cabs:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

ALPHALITE™ 6A-CBMR

I wonder if this could be used as a replacement for cheesy-sounding tweeters...

 

[billfitzmaurice]

So what would be better for dispersion, multiple vertically stacked speakers or a single speaker?

When vertically stacked the horizontal dispersion of an array is the same as that of one driver. Go with more than one driver if needed for power handling and output.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Thanks for the speaker links. I'm going to wait until I get my hands on one of Duke's cabinets and see how that works out in general applications for guitar before I play around with other things

I added poly batting to my friend's ported guitar cabinet tonight. The sound did generally become clearer, getting rid of a phasey quality that would obscure note definition in chords or when using effects. Recommended!

 

[rpsands]

Science rules!

 

[m_bisson]

How did you secure the lining to the wood? Glue?

 

[SurferJoe46]

Is there a point of no return on lining a cab?

Is there a point where too much can hurt output? I can see that covering a port would be detrimental, and filling the cab totally with foam would cause some problems - but where does one stop installing the foam material?

How about the interior corners - line them tightly or if there's a little interior cabinet wood showing - is that a problem?

I've seen just odd-shaped pieces of mat material stapled in just a few places in different cabs and combos, and wondered if this is just cheap or shoddy or purposeful.

Lastly ::: if one were to install lining - is there a rule or experience that tells that a 15 inch driver likes more or less lining that a 12 inch? Thicker verses thinner? Vice-versa?

It seems that if the purpose of lining a cab is important to keep stray reflections off the backside of the cone, then lining/covering any cross braces would also be a good idea, since they have to figure into the surfaces that could reflect odd frequencies back at the cone too. No?

I know in my heart that there cannot be a linear extrapolation on the physics involved since there are so many ideas and actual builds of cabs, that the waters are indeed murky from being stirred up so much - but surely there must be a rule of thumb for a starting place at least.

 

[m_bisson]

From what I gather, the point is to stop the box from resonating. It will make a noise if struck, but the noise shuold be a dull thud and diminish immediately. Once that's achieved, however, I'm not sure if MORE lining/muffling would be good or bad for the sound.

This is all backwards for me. After years of drumming I've spent most of my time trying to get the MOST resonance out of my instrument ><

 

[JimmyM]

for the record, i once tried to add lining to all the walls of a double baffle b-15n cab. made no difference whatsoever. so i came to the conclusion that lining the back wall was enough for the b-15n and pulled the extra.

BUT...

that is a far cry from no lining at all.

 

[rpsands]

The back wall definitely makes the most difference.

 

[jnewmark]

I did this test with my double baffle B15N. I was refurbishing the cabinet and the fiberglass on the back wall was in rough shape. I wanted to replace it with a different material that wouldn't itch or have health issues since the fliptop amp was being opened and closed whenever it was moved.

I ran a studio reference disk, some CD's, and played through the cabinet without and with various amounts of lining and listened. The bottom line is that it made a big difference to the mids when the cabinet was lined. The mids lost their muddiness, there was more articulation and delicateness in the notes.

At some point, I couldn't decide how much stuffing was necessary. As I added more, it was difficult to determine if the thicker lining was making a difference. The differences were subtle. Perhaps ear fatigue was setting in.

The problem with this model of fliptop is that there is very little space between the back of the cabinet and the amp head when it is flipped. Too much stuffing and the fliptop can't flip. In the end, I wound up using layers of a dense wool felt covering all surfaces within the cab. I used a second layer on the back wall that arches over the top of the cabinet where the lid sits. This gets removed when I need to flip the amp.

I guess it worked in this case.

 

[c_thur]

I think there is a point of diminishing returns and eventual negative impact when lining a cabinet.

A number of years back, and I don't know if more recent data has overruled this, the easiest way to picture cabinet lining was like a free volume (displacement) increase. Lining the cabinet could make it appear up to 25-30% larger. I'm not sure why this is so--perhaps because it traps shorter wavelengths (higher frequencies) it made the box react or resonate as if it were deeper?

Regardless, insulation displaces air so it physically reduces volume, but it functionally increases it. At the "point of no return" though, it starts to functionally take up room again-possibly very quickly as what was previously increasing volume is not decreasing it. If you completely stuff the cabinet, it would probably appear to the driver like a much smaller cabinet.

Re: the PA speakers...I'd totally rock a 4x8 vertical alignment. The idea of that in a forward-facing TQWT makes me wish I still had a wood shop.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

From what I gather, the point is to stop the box from resonating. It will make a noise if struck, but the noise shuold be a dull thud and diminish immediately. Once that's achieved, however, I'm not sure if MORE lining/muffling would be good or bad for the sound.

The dull thud should actually be a high pitched whack; that comes from proper bracing, not lining. Lining absorbs internal reflections. With a vented cab an inch to inch and a half of damping should be sufficient.

A number of years back, and I don't know if more recent data has overruled this, the easiest way to picture cabinet lining was like a free volume (displacement) increase. Lining the cabinet could make it appear up to 25-30% larger. I'm not sure why this is so--perhaps because it traps shorter wavelengths (higher frequencies) it made the box react or resonate as if it were deeper?

That's done with sealed cabs, not vented, and no, it does not make the cab appear larger. That conclusion was drawn based on faulty data. Literally stuffing a sealed cab with damping does lower the Q of the cab, which can tame boomy response. If it isn't boomy just line it.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

How did you secure the lining to the wood? Glue?

Yup, just a little gorilla glue to make sure it's attached.