Kala UBass Megathread, Part 4

[imperialbari]

Bad style quoting oneself, but just realised the option of attaching photos. And then I will add a comment on another aspect of re-mounting a string being too short after a post-trimming slipping.

I noted the problems with slipping of the Pahoehoe strings, and when tuning up last night I had such experience myself. As soon as the pitch stability gets dubious I look for double-layered windings on the tuning posts. I had corrected that successfully with the E, A and D strings. And thought I had succeeded with the G string also. At any rate I trimmed the surplus from all 4 strings, when the G string slipped. I haven’t come to buy spare strings like with my other plucked string instruments, so I had to find a solution as the string wasn’t long enough to make a knotted loop like suggested by Kala.

Fortunately I have learned about knots many decades ago even if I don’t know their English names. A single knot like this one would slip:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l80agh6be5cvjom/2012-08-12%2003.23.45.jpg

So I made the first loop of a surgical knot, that is about taking the end through the loop once more:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eiur39lbfwgqeey/2012-08-12%2003.24.11.jpg

That knot will not slip when tightened, and it will not slip through the slot of the tuning post.

I am going to experiment with Thundergut strings also, even if I find Aquila strings for ukuleles and guitar a bit stiff on my fingers. There I prefer Worth. But from Worth’s own description they are not radically different from the Pahoehoe’s. And their colour doesn’t invite me either.

It has been mentioned that the Thundergut’s tend to slip when knotted below the bridge. I hope the extra winding on the knot will solve that problem.

I used an electrical cord for the illustrations. Against my expectations I couldn’t make the photos show up directly from Dropbox.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre in Denmark

There has been mentioning of the involvement of pliers and wives in the remounting of strings going too short. My approach might be different (not that I am short in pliers). I have experimented with reorganizing re-entrant patterns in ukuleles with the object of having as many different keys represented as possible and still keeping the same chord shapes without skewing string tensions too much.

In one situation string #1 was moved to become string #2. That is: it was too short because the tuning posts for the center strings are further from the nut and the string had been trimmed to fit the original position. It was a quite new string, so I was unwilling to scrap it.

I could find a discarded string to augment the string that had become too short. The knot was between nut and post, so the oscillating portion of the string was unharmed. Of course the knot had to settle before the tuning became stable, but that is acceptable, when you live in a place where new strings involve a shipping process.

A somewhat similar string formation is seen with the wound Pyramid strings for the UBass. Only the lengths between bridge and nut have the appropriate dimensions for sound and tuning. The dimensions at the ends are about nothing more than mounting the string.

Klaus

 

[pauliebass]

Fretless is the way, the truth, and the tone.

As the Lord commanded, "Fret not."

I want a fretless because it seems like the best realized way to make a bass in this style. Many problems seem to be eliminated. Intonation is on the player, no weird fret noise, no chewing up strings, ect... Everyone kinda makes an upright reference when talking about tone... Bull fiddles don't have frets. I like the idea of having a fretted version, but it probably isn't as nice of an instrument design-wise.

 

[davewave]

I'm thinking of saying goodbye to mine. Question: I've scratched the hell out of the the tuning posts from restringing using plyers to hold on to the string. It's fully functional otherwise. Do you guys think that'll effect the value much? I'm going to put it up in the classifieds soon.

Wow, that was a brief, torrid affair.
Must have been infatuation, not true love.
Oh well, these things happen.

As for the tuning posts, a nail file or emery cloth and a black Sharpie could erase many sins.

 

[davewave]

...I have experimented with reorganizing re-entrant patterns in ukuleles with the object of having as many different keys represented as possible and still keeping the same chord shapes without skewing string tensions too much...

Klaus

As one ukulele player to another, welcome to the forums, Klaus.

For the bass players, "re-entrant" means the bottom string isn't tuned to the lowest note, but higher, like traditional ukuleles or 5-string banjos.

So many different tuning and string options is why I'm into double digit ukulele ownership.....

Since I played bass for 30 years before I got into ukes, I prefer low G tuning linear tuning like basses and guitars, but re-entrant opens up some interesting chord inversion and picking possibilities.

 

[davewave]

There has been mentioning of the involvement of pliers and wives in the remounting of strings going too short.

I just re-mounted some trimmed off Pahoeoes onto my s-u-b, and I was amazed again at how elastic they are.

I had good results using a capo, as was posted earlier, to clamp some tension and then using locking "Vise-Grip" pliers to hold the end.

I don't think I'd want my wife or anybody helping me without safety glasses and a face shield, those things could put somebody's eye out.

 

[SBassman]

I bloodied myself a few different times - until I saw the light, put the stock strings away, and took out the Thunderguts.

Thunderguts - No safety gear required.

 

[miiitch]

cheers

anyone in here who sometimes plays in D standard with these?
i play mine in Eb all the time, but D really is too floppy ... need it though.
do they sell strings suitable for that tuning?

 

[Timmy-Watts]

cheers

anyone in here who sometimes plays in D standard with these?
i play mine in Eb all the time, but D really is too floppy ... need it though.
do they sell strings suitable for that tuning?

Yes...with a 5 string.

 

[miiitch]

have mailed Kala as well, waiting for response.
asked them right away whether using a 5er string set would put too much stress on the strings or the bass.

 

[SBassman]

cheers

anyone in here who sometimes plays in D standard with these?
i play mine in Eb all the time, but D really is too floppy ... need it though.
do they sell strings suitable for that tuning?

What are you using right now - stocks or Thunderguts? The Thunderguts have more tension. I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that the Thunderguts would do fine down to D.

 

[miiitch]

stock pahoehoes.

i´d fear killing the TG in no time, because i use a (felt) pick .. maybe they stretch at the bridge when plucked too hard ?

damn, they need another set of strings just slightly higher gauge than the current stock strings would be perfect for me

 

[Timmy-Watts]

stock pahoehoes.

i´d fear killing the TG in no time, because i use a (felt) pick .. maybe they stretch at the bridge when plucked too hard ?

damn, they need another set of strings just slightly higher gauge than the current stock strings would be perfect for me

Trust me, our string woes have been heard and more options are around the corner. These things take a little time...

 

[dougness]

Trust me, our string woes have been heard and more options are around the corner. These things take a little time...

Wow, this certainly is good news. (Sounds like it might be a while though.) I'm awfully frustrated with the out of tune notes up high. Still, I'll hold off on defretting my Ubass for now in hopes of a solution. Please, Tim, update us as you're able.

 

[SBassman]

There's another possible string option in the future that could be similar to the Thunderguts, yet creamier. It will take a bit of time to get more science behind the description.

Suffice to say - both Kala the bass maker and Aquila the string maker are not sitting idle. They will continue to innovate in this amazing space.

 

[imperialbari]

One Hollywood studio-guitarist once was interviewed in DownBeat. I don’t remember his name, but he was doing the Love Boat series. He had to play all the local plucked strings from the harbours around the world for the right flavour. He kept his sanity by tuning all the 4-string variants as either the 4 highest or the 4 lowest strings of the guitar.

The bass fits well with guitar thinking, but there is one kind of people which cannot use their trained routines when taking up the bass: cellists. And the question is not hypothetical, as I have met at least 3 of them over the years.

Basses tuned in fifths are not entirely unknown in the history of the uprights, but the long position stretches make the tuning in fourths more obvious also with full size bass guitars.

A tubist friend of mine originally played cello. He found out I had started working with ukuleles and asked how to string one so that he could apply his thinking in C-G-D-A. To my knowledge the widest span between lowest and highest string on ukuleles is a ninth, and the most common re-entrant stringing even has a span of only a major sixth. So he turned towards the mandolin and banjo families.

Sinces then my UBass has arrived, and I definitely noted the much shorter fret lengths compared to the 34" basses. Also learning about the existence of the 5-string UBass with low B plus about the availability of several gauges of Pahoehoe strings made me think of my friends situation again.

Could a 4-string UBass be strung in fifths C-G-D-A with a controllable sound and response all over its range?

And yes, my friend is real, not an alias for myself. I never was taught on guitar, but soon found out to built chords myself. I have been taught a little bit on bass, which I find more logic for scales and melodies due to the uniform intervals between the strings.

Klaus

 

[pauliebass]

I will buy one for my wife, who is a cellist, if it can be tuned in 5ths!

 

[spigmu]

One Hollywood studio-guitarist once was interviewed in DownBeat. I don’t remember his name, but he was doing the Love Boat series. He had to play all the local plucked strings from the harbours around the world for the right flavour. He kept his sanity by tuning all the 4-string variants as either the 4 highest or the 4 lowest strings of the guitar.

I'll bet that was Tommy Tedesco. He was known to have a million ethnic instruments, all tuned like a guitar : )

 

[SBassman]

Finally joining the digital recording world.
I bought a cheapie 30 dollar USB instrument interface - and it actually works!

I'm sitting here listening to a playback of myself on the UBass for the first time, and I'm smiling.

I will use this to post some audio clips of the UBass strings I am trying. I'll say more about the string in the not too distant future, but suffice to say - we have some fun new stuff ahead.

 

[spigmu]

Is there a consensus about the different woods in an amplified situation? I'm looking towards a lefty fretless U and while I'm sure the spruce/mahogany/acadia have noticeably slightly different sounds acoustically, has anyone who has compared them plugged in felt that once amplified it mostly comes out in the wash? Or not?

Thanks.

 

[scotch]

Is there a consensus about the different woods in an amplified situation? I'm looking towards a lefty fretless U and while I'm sure the spruce/mahogany/acadia have noticeably slightly different sounds acoustically, has anyone who has compared them plugged in felt that once amplified it mostly comes out in the wash? Or not?

Thanks.

I own 2 U-Basses, a mahogany and a spruce. Acoustically they maybe sound about 20% different. Plugged in, maybe 5%.