I think I'd like to play the Rota "Divertimento Concertante". In my dreams.
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Double Bass Karr vs Rabbath, Bow Technique
- Thread starter Paps
- Start date
Entirely in my dreams but I would play the Tan Dun, it's spectacular. There is so much cool later 20th c. and 21st bass literature. Not that anyone asked!
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I’ve only ever played as a soloist three times, the Divertimento concerto would be a great next piece. I’ve done Koussevitsky, Bottesini Concerto di Bravura and Kol Nidre. I’m
My little amateur orchestra did that about 10 years ago with Paul Erhard as the soloist. He is a great guy and a fine player.
I agree that there is a lot of cool modern stuff, but I still think that I have yet to hear a truly great bass concerto. There's a lot of amazing solo works for bass that I love to hear, but I sort of suspect that the bass doesn't lend itself to "concerto"-style works. I haven't listened to the whole Tan Dun, so maybe that's the one to prove me wrong. I like Missy Mazzoli's Dark With Excessive Bright but it's so short. I heard the Harbison once, but it apparently didn't make an impression on me.
That's probably true. For me the great strength of the bass is the richness of its harmonics. That is perhaps not ideal for being heard with and over an orchestra, although Bottesini certainly does emphasize that!
I recently attended a recital by Rebecca Lawrence of mostly modern works for solo bass, and it was really cool. She worked with Paul Cannon who posted a great video of solo works here not too long ago. We have Scodannibio and his followers to thank for even more great solo bass works. In a more traditional vein, Xavier Foley and Kebra Seyoun-Charles, and (I just learned) Sam Suggs. There's a wealth of really great solo bass music, it's just not concerto music. I'd be thrilled to get a great bass concerto for inspiration, but I'm also really glad for what we do have and not that sad that bass solo music is its own thing.
Jacob: A Little Concerto
Goss: Concerto in E Minor
If it had to be from the old times, Capuzzi, which has a fun 1st mvt. and a lovely 2nd. No Viennese arpeggio studies for me! First mvt. of Cimador is also a pleasant romp.
I didn't know the Goss. There's a kid playing it on Youtube, sort of. I like it. Just bought the music online.
We used to have a cello professor at the school where I teach who called those Viennese pieces "harmonic concertos".
I would say that the Karr thing of getting a clean, loud projecting sound right on the bridge takes some time to get to work and it is time well spent. Physically being able to do it makes the other ways to get a clean tone physically easier. As it was mentioned, it is one color and there are many more.
One huge difference is Rabbath has gone far deeper into his pedagogy and has a lot more to say about the bow and it is extremely useful.
Gary Karr has spent his time being a soloist and did a lot for us - but also left a lot for us to do. Rather than looking at what he did as lacking in anyway, we should view it as foundational. Same with Rabbath. We complete the methods with the work we do with the instrument and as we do that work we uncover new things.
Some of it needs to be added to the pedagogy other bits are just basic ideas any thinking person will come to while studying the instrument.
One huge difference is Rabbath has gone far deeper into his pedagogy and has a lot more to say about the bow and it is extremely useful.
Gary Karr has spent his time being a soloist and did a lot for us - but also left a lot for us to do. Rather than looking at what he did as lacking in anyway, we should view it as foundational. Same with Rabbath. We complete the methods with the work we do with the instrument and as we do that work we uncover new things.
Some of it needs to be added to the pedagogy other bits are just basic ideas any thinking person will come to while studying the instrument.
I bought the Goss also, and it's rather well-written. Would be fun to hear it played by a pro.
A few thoughts:
I saw and heard Mr. Karr up close and personal in a small recital hall in the 60s. To experience what the instrument was capable of, especially in the hands of someone only a few years older, was truly inspirational.
I was approached several years ago with a casual inquiry about playing the Dittersdorf concerto(not my favorite) with a college orchestra. I consulted a bass friend more knowledgeable about the piece and he told me to charge at least $5,000! Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. A serious offer never came through, which is probably just as well.
I like the Bottesini rep. It's challenging but fun to play and more lighthearted than a lot of the other solo material.
An ISB convention is a great place to see and hear all sorts of solo rep from all periods. It is also a great way to find out where you fit on the bass player spectrum.
I saw and heard Mr. Karr up close and personal in a small recital hall in the 60s. To experience what the instrument was capable of, especially in the hands of someone only a few years older, was truly inspirational.
I was approached several years ago with a casual inquiry about playing the Dittersdorf concerto(not my favorite) with a college orchestra. I consulted a bass friend more knowledgeable about the piece and he told me to charge at least $5,000! Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. A serious offer never came through, which is probably just as well.
I like the Bottesini rep. It's challenging but fun to play and more lighthearted than a lot of the other solo material.
An ISB convention is a great place to see and hear all sorts of solo rep from all periods. It is also a great way to find out where you fit on the bass player spectrum.
As bassists, I think we are revising Karr to be beneath what he actually is.
In his pomp, as far as I'm aware, he was by an incredible margin the greatest bass soloist on the planet.
I'm not entirely happy with the claim that numerous modern bassists using modern basses have equalled him.
I doubt bass technology has improved as much as people claim and from what I have heard of other bassists, no one has surpassed Karr's sound, projection, tuning and overall mastery of the instrument.
I have heard Rabbath doing lots of very clever things with the bow, using harmonics and double stops, but when playing pure musical notes, such as a Bach cello suite, I am not hearing anything out of this world.
In his pomp, as far as I'm aware, he was by an incredible margin the greatest bass soloist on the planet.
I'm not entirely happy with the claim that numerous modern bassists using modern basses have equalled him.
I doubt bass technology has improved as much as people claim and from what I have heard of other bassists, no one has surpassed Karr's sound, projection, tuning and overall mastery of the instrument.
I have heard Rabbath doing lots of very clever things with the bow, using harmonics and double stops, but when playing pure musical notes, such as a Bach cello suite, I am not hearing anything out of this world.
The CDs and LPs played on a decent stereo sound pretty great. He isn't going for a huge sound, but as you say it is resonant and in tune. I heard him and Karr both in their prime. Karr has a much bigger sound, but that is what he was going for. He wanted to be able to blare or the top of a church organ or orchestra and he did.
Rabbath is into a whole world of color and subtly - he is fully aware of improvised music and the avant garde. I saw him play with Ray Brown once. It was fantastic.
We would all do best not picking but studying both methods of sound production.
- Jan 24, 2002
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I studied with François. "Son premier" is literally "primary sound". That implies there are other sounds to be developed, as well. He always starts with that because it's a nice, warm and resonant tone which promotes a relaxed bow arm and flexibility. It's also easier for getting a decent and consistent tone. That's exactly the right place to get started. But don't mistake the beginning for an ending. It's introductory material, the kind of stuff you get in a 2 hour workshop.
He doesn't have just one sound or one technique. His wrist isn't always super arched and pronated -- it completely depends on what he's trying to do. That beautiful, flexible bow hold is great for lyrical, melodic pieces but fairly useless in other contexts. Having a dynamic bow hold which is constantly changing and adapting is complicated stuff, so it makes sense if most people aren't getting that far. But it's good to be aware.
I never worked with Gary Karr, but I would imagine it's a similar story in his case. He has a classic starting point he likes to teach which happens to be much closer to the bridge. It's a different priority to start with, and leads to different technical conclusions and compromises.
He doesn't have just one sound or one technique. His wrist isn't always super arched and pronated -- it completely depends on what he's trying to do. That beautiful, flexible bow hold is great for lyrical, melodic pieces but fairly useless in other contexts. Having a dynamic bow hold which is constantly changing and adapting is complicated stuff, so it makes sense if most people aren't getting that far. But it's good to be aware.
I never worked with Gary Karr, but I would imagine it's a similar story in his case. He has a classic starting point he likes to teach which happens to be much closer to the bridge. It's a different priority to start with, and leads to different technical conclusions and compromises.
I played in a Masterclass with Gary Karr back in the mid 80s when he was probably at his best. That "Amati" bass was a very individual instrument, set up in a very particular way, but I still remember the way it felt when I finally got what he wanted me to do! Karr's style is quite outdated now, which leads us to think less of him, but I have never heard a player better than him. Lyrical, agile, flexible, and so powerful. The only bassist I've heard who came close was Rinat Abragimov
He is also a great showman off the Bass, between pieces, regaling the audience with stories, many of them humorous.
