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keeping time when drummer throws an awkward fill
- Thread starter AndyPanda
- Start date
This is very true.A very great drummer once told me-
He is not responsible for keeping me in my place. I am supposed to know where I am...at all times. Count.
Find your internal drummer.
I work with a great drummer that throws some odd time fills in the mix and if I’m not counting I’m hitting the off ramp and everyone around knows it.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
A very great drummer once told me-
He is not responsible for keeping me in my place. I am supposed to know where I am...at all times. Count.
Find your internal drummer.
This is 100% the answer. If these guys are coming out of fills in different places then somebody has to adjust their clock.
I deal with this on a drummer by drummer and song by song basis.
With the bad drummer, I just ignored them and kept the proper beat and tempo. I waited for them to figure out where they were. I would describe it as if they just surfaced from a deep dive, gasping for air, floundering around. After they settled down and established a rough tempo, I would sync up with them again.
With the good drummer, it depends on the song. One one song, he's all over the place for the fills, but nails the timing of the next one perfectly. So similar approach to the bad drummer, keep the beat and tempo, but you know exactly when you will sync up. Very refreshing. On another song, that he's still learning, he will add a full extra beat. We just roll with it and hang for the extra beat and all come back on the "new" one. We know that he will figure it out soon enough though.
With the bad drummer, I just ignored them and kept the proper beat and tempo. I waited for them to figure out where they were. I would describe it as if they just surfaced from a deep dive, gasping for air, floundering around. After they settled down and established a rough tempo, I would sync up with them again.
With the good drummer, it depends on the song. One one song, he's all over the place for the fills, but nails the timing of the next one perfectly. So similar approach to the bad drummer, keep the beat and tempo, but you know exactly when you will sync up. Very refreshing. On another song, that he's still learning, he will add a full extra beat. We just roll with it and hang for the extra beat and all come back on the "new" one. We know that he will figure it out soon enough though.
Our drummer loves to throw in overly complex fills and really stretches himself. In practice, I always say we are allowed to push ourselves so it doesn't bother me too much. But, practice is also a rehearsal and when we play live, he's doing the same fills and coming out late. The good news is he's consistent. And, if I do my part and we match timing, it sounds 100% intentional and like real musicians, not robots.
Long story short, metronomes are great for practice. But, you play with people for a reason. You just need to discuss it and find how you locki in with each other.
Long story short, metronomes are great for practice. But, you play with people for a reason. You just need to discuss it and find how you locki in with each other.
Guessing? Gotta be a way to practice with two diffrent drum loops . Listening to both but keeping the time to one .
We sometimes struggle with this, especially after our drummer gets the newest books/DVDs from his heros and then insists on attempting some massively overcomplex fills that arrive back at the 1 late. Mostly this just happens in practice, but sometimes it happens live. My job is (a) to be the reference point for the band until he finds the 1 again, and (b) to not glare at him. I've gotten better at (a), but I'm still struggling with (b)...
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions so far...
Regarding metronome and keeping tempo .. I do practice with metronome on 2 and 4 and also practice a lot with just one beat per bar or one beat per 2 bars etc. so this is not the "keeping time" issue for me. In fact it's almost as though my practicing with metronome and drum machine doesn't help at all with the issue because they are 100% reliable and predictable and my problem is with the beat suddenly changing unpredictably and my brain panics and thinks I lost time somewhere.
What I heard from many/most of the posts is that it is my job to count and know where I am. I found that when I looped the problem section from Cold Sweat (problem for me, obviously not a problem for Bernard Odum - he stayed rock solid) it really helped train my brain and I can no longer hear what tripped me up before. Clyde kept time and didn't drop any beats - it was just having that snare hit (that I was relying on) shift to an off beat when I wasn't expecting it and I need to learn to not let that sort of thing throw me off.
It would be fun if there were a way to program some unusual/offbeat fills into a drum machine and randomize when the odd fill occurs so it catches me off guard. I might just experiment with that today.
Regarding metronome and keeping tempo .. I do practice with metronome on 2 and 4 and also practice a lot with just one beat per bar or one beat per 2 bars etc. so this is not the "keeping time" issue for me. In fact it's almost as though my practicing with metronome and drum machine doesn't help at all with the issue because they are 100% reliable and predictable and my problem is with the beat suddenly changing unpredictably and my brain panics and thinks I lost time somewhere.
What I heard from many/most of the posts is that it is my job to count and know where I am. I found that when I looped the problem section from Cold Sweat (problem for me, obviously not a problem for Bernard Odum - he stayed rock solid) it really helped train my brain and I can no longer hear what tripped me up before. Clyde kept time and didn't drop any beats - it was just having that snare hit (that I was relying on) shift to an off beat when I wasn't expecting it and I need to learn to not let that sort of thing throw me off.
It would be fun if there were a way to program some unusual/offbeat fills into a drum machine and randomize when the odd fill occurs so it catches me off guard. I might just experiment with that today.
Not exactly the same thing, but my drummer shared his practice routine for dealing with guys who have uneven time. He listens to different music (through headphones) than he’s practicing.
My Beat Buddy, (best drum machine ever) has a sobriety setting.
If I want, it’ll sound like any number of inconsistent drummers. Louder, softer, speeds up, drags, fills don’t find the one..
Set it anywhere from first beer to totally trashed. Just like playing a bar gig.
With real drummers who do this, you just lose their number or fire them. Because they aren’t real drummers.
If I want, it’ll sound like any number of inconsistent drummers. Louder, softer, speeds up, drags, fills don’t find the one..
Set it anywhere from first beer to totally trashed. Just like playing a bar gig.
With real drummers who do this, you just lose their number or fire them. Because they aren’t real drummers.
Sorry this is a long post. As i've said before, Get out ASAP! It's the worst! My old drummer,was insecure, but strangely, over-confident too! (he knew he was horrible, Bad timing, No talent, and little experience. just B-A-D). I would often find him Staring at the guitarist or me. to see where we were in the song. I'm not horrible, but far from great. truth be told i struggled with time keeping early in my "career" , but I put in a lot of practice to get myself in shape! so naturally, i got frustrated when he showed no interest in getting better or working on his timing at all. I tried to give him tips, but he would get all butt hurt (like, telling a guitarist their tone sucks). we were in a classic rock band together, and we played a lot of blues. The problem was he could Not play a shuffle! I have been told by other drummers Shuffles are hard to play becuz they're not straight beats "it's all feel". I told the bad drummer "it's a triplet,with out the middle beat". Whatta train wreck!, so confused! poor guy. i had to Get out! imagine hearing the Doors "road house blues", but the drummer is playing an oomm-pah, polka beat! all of the blues songs in the set sounded like polka tunes! the guitarist gets mad/irratated & blames me for his flaws, so I had to turn up real loud and play ghost/muted triplets or the shuffle underneath his polka beats to get him in the groove/rhythm.
I wasn't super comfortable with doing that tho, because I wasn't 100% confident in my own ability (& now i'm louder than the rest of the band) The last straw was Him trying to play Led zeppelin's "Rock 'n Roll" that drum intro is "Off"/weird to begin with, & with him it was hillarious, totally embarassing (cats fighting in a trashcan rolling down stairs)! as was the drum solo! ...But, working on it did make my timing & groove much better (made me more independent) because I had to put in a lot of extra time in the "shed"! a tarnished Silverlining? a band's rhythm section should be a tight unit! not fighting each other, intolerable for all...GL
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If the drummers wheels comes off the track. playing in front or behind him may not help. i will hold a note or go into a slide and recover. YOU have to get His wheels back on the track for he is the time machine. You can brag all you want that you were playing on the beat, but everyone else knew you screwed up. Eye contact is crucial
while performing. A syncopation slap works well too.
while performing. A syncopation slap works well too.
“Extra” beats are mistakes, unless it’s arranged like that you’ll get a dirty look from me if you pull that on a gig.
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Would you play gigs with a band that doesn't have a great PA?
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