The 1/37th. note, written thus- 1/%&$#*/37 was invented by bass players to yank everything back to the one.
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keeping time when drummer throws an awkward fill
- Thread starter AndyPanda
- Start date
Sometimes I just keep the time and ignore the drummer.
I personally love it when the drummer adds measures to the last part of a solo, particularly in tom rolls and when it moves the 1 (I encourage my drummers to do stuff like this) Provides the dancers with a jolt of unexpected energy! Have to be paying attention though...or a cool lick becomes a band train wreck.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
This, This, and this. Always know where the down beat is, even if you aren't playing it. The band will thank you.
Jerry Garcia once said in answer to the question where's the 1. "Its where you think it is"
Thats all cool and stuff, but regarding the drummer... IF the drummer is keeping proper time with
all his nonsense the bass as to be steady and know where the one is. If the drummer is changing, or
actually changing where the 1 is , then he has no concept of the proper count, and as far as Time goes,
its Time to fire the drummer.
Thats all cool and stuff, but regarding the drummer... IF the drummer is keeping proper time with
all his nonsense the bass as to be steady and know where the one is. If the drummer is changing, or
actually changing where the 1 is , then he has no concept of the proper count, and as far as Time goes,
its Time to fire the drummer.
You see the drummers Jerry had to put up with. Neither could find the one with a metronome.
I've had it happen, and all you can do is the best you can, and if it screws up, try not to let it show. In my former band, we were backing up Henry Gross, the guy who did the song "Shannon" in the 70's, and he starts a song on guitar and comes in with a little pickup that completely threw our drummer/BL as to where the one is. So he came in half a beat off of one, and we had that little moment where the guy in charge tries to straighten us out. Which should have been Henry, so we all got in line with him, and it made the drummer angry that someone else was trying to lead the band on a show he booked, and he played the entire song a half beat off! It was so obvious that it was wrong that the audience knew it so I know he knew it, too. And Henry wasn't changing to suit him, either. So all we could do was do the best we could, pretend nothing was wrong, and pray for the song to end one day. Which it did about 8 years later 
Then the drummer got mad at us for not following him and made a big pronouncement about how HE leads the band, not anyone else.
God I don't miss that band at all!
Then the drummer got mad at us for not following him and made a big pronouncement about how HE leads the band, not anyone else.God I don't miss that band at all!
You can't count your way through it. You have to feel your way through it. The drummer might not land on the 1.
Ultimately you follow the songer. If he/she starts singing you'll know where the 1 in immediately. And you'll know where the bass line is supposed to be. If you have a pro singer, trainwreck will be short lived. If there are several train wrecks caused by a drummer, that band will get a new drummer or I will get a new band.
I don't give a crap if you have double kick pedals and want to show off. If your flashy bits don't OBVIOUSLY land on the 1, shut up and keep time until you learn how to control your flashy bits. Experiment on your own time.
Ultimately you follow the songer. If he/she starts singing you'll know where the 1 in immediately. And you'll know where the bass line is supposed to be. If you have a pro singer, trainwreck will be short lived. If there are several train wrecks caused by a drummer, that band will get a new drummer or I will get a new band.
I don't give a crap if you have double kick pedals and want to show off. If your flashy bits don't OBVIOUSLY land on the 1, shut up and keep time until you learn how to control your flashy bits. Experiment on your own time.
Learning to hiccup when that s*** happens is a valuable thing. Having a band that all knows how and when to do it? Priceless.I've had it happen, and all you can do is the best you can, and if it screws up, try not to let it show. In my former band, we were backing up Henry Gross, the guy who did the song "Shannon" in the 70's, and he starts a song on guitar and comes in with a little pickup that completely threw our drummer/BL as to where the one is. So he came in half a beat off of one, and we had that little moment where the guy in charge tries to straighten us out. Which should have been Henry, so we all got in line with him, and it made the drummer angry that someone else was trying to lead the band on a show he booked, and he played the entire song a half beat off! It was so obvious that it was wrong that the audience knew it so I know he knew it, too. And Henry wasn't changing to suit him, either. So all we could do was do the best we could, pretend nothing was wrong, and pray for the song to end one day. Which it did about 8 years later
God I don't miss that band at all!
Yeah, but if you listen to the clip he posted, there was never a place where the rhythm faltered. It was all 1-2-3-4 but the fills the drummer was playing were throwing OP off.You can't count your way through it. You have to feel your way through it. The drummer might not land on the 1.
Ultimately you follow the songer. If he/she starts singing you'll know where the 1 in immediately. And you'll know where the bass line is supposed to be. If you have a pro singer, trainwreck will be short lived. If there are several train wrecks caused by a drummer, that band will get a new drummer or I will get a new band.
I don't give a crap if you have double kick pedals and want to show off. If your flashy bits don't OBVIOUSLY land on the 1, shut up and keep time until you learn how to control your flashy bits. Experiment on your own time.
this is one of the biggest things i struggle with when we're playing to a click/guide track. i don't know if it's lack of practice or poor IEM mix but often singers will skip whole parts and i want to play it the "right way" even though in that context the right thing is to follow the singer
i got super excited when, at the first rehearsal with a drummer I'd never played with before, he had a cheat sheet the same size as mine. he showed me that he had actually studied the material and came prepared!
I saw Mike Stern at Victor Wooten & Steve Bailey’s Bass at the Beach Camp. When the drummer started messing around Mike was furiously rocking his foot toe-to-heel. I don’t remember which was which but try heel as 1, toe as 2, heel 3 and toe 4 and see if that helps. If you are on the heel you will either be 1 or 3. Should be easier to tell where you are. - OR you can “march” or dance right foot-left foot and that can help cement the beat for you.
Aside from that, maybe try not to listen too intently to the drummer’s accents. It’s too easy for them to accent an offbeat and fool you to think that’s where the one is. BUT you have to trust they didn’t mess up and actually change where the one is!
Aside from that, maybe try not to listen too intently to the drummer’s accents. It’s too easy for them to accent an offbeat and fool you to think that’s where the one is. BUT you have to trust they didn’t mess up and actually change where the one is!
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I do gigs with a really great drummer who will at times throw some really complicated and creative fills that lose me. He always gets back to one perfectly. I've had to learn to trust myself, pound my left heel into the stage on every "1" and it will all come together ok. Sometimes if things are cookin' along just fine I find myself jigging my feet to whatever beat is happening. I've learned that this can be really good, but sometimes lead me to parts unknown 
I try to remember and focus.... Left heel on 1, the rest of the body (inc fingers hopefully) will fall into line and follow.
I try to remember and focus.... Left heel on 1, the rest of the body (inc fingers hopefully) will fall into line and follow.
I have always played with good drummers because if I can't lock in with the drummer, I just don't join the band.
This one time though (I want to say late 1970s?) one of my favourite drummer friends got a set of those "roto toms" (does anybody still use those?) and there must have been about a dozen of the damned things, in ever dercreasing sizes. I swear the smallest was about the size of a jam jar. Anyhoo, he had to use them all, and sometimes he'd get carried away and a fill ended when it shouldn't. I learned pretty quickly that I had to be my own metronome, accenting the beat with a head nod, or the whole upper body if I'm really feeling it. But it's up to me.
Oh, and I told him in no uncertain terms: When you head off into the weeds like that, I'm not following you.
This one time though (I want to say late 1970s?) one of my favourite drummer friends got a set of those "roto toms" (does anybody still use those?) and there must have been about a dozen of the damned things, in ever dercreasing sizes. I swear the smallest was about the size of a jam jar. Anyhoo, he had to use them all, and sometimes he'd get carried away and a fill ended when it shouldn't. I learned pretty quickly that I had to be my own metronome, accenting the beat with a head nod, or the whole upper body if I'm really feeling it. But it's up to me.
Oh, and I told him in no uncertain terms: When you head off into the weeds like that, I'm not following you.
in jazz, when you're trading fours, for example, drummers often like to take it out as far as they can and land back on the beat. its kind of the point- to mess with the timing and come back in together and the audience goes WOW and every body claps (whoever isn't talking louder)
when im playing with a hot drummer and they start taking it outside, i employ a certain technique. i allow myself to start making vocalizations. sort of a half counting/ half grunting along with the syncopations. i don't know what it is, but when i do this, it helps me feel the underlying groove as well as key into what the drummer is actually doing with the beat. there are times, however, when you just gotta kind of ignore what they're doing and hold down the beat and they'll come back eventually.
when im playing with a hot drummer and they start taking it outside, i employ a certain technique. i allow myself to start making vocalizations. sort of a half counting/ half grunting along with the syncopations. i don't know what it is, but when i do this, it helps me feel the underlying groove as well as key into what the drummer is actually doing with the beat. there are times, however, when you just gotta kind of ignore what they're doing and hold down the beat and they'll come back eventually.
define "awkward fill"
1. a non-musical, 'lost the time', wannabe show-off vs. chops
2. a perfectly legitimate fill, but i get confused when it's not a 'fill for dummies'.
everyone is responsible for time, always...but that's the only job a drummer has: hitting different parts of the kit is just a way drummers keep time in an 'interesting' way. but if a cat with drums can't keep time = not a drummer.
per the OP: the drummer is keeping dependable time throughout...sometimes we have to work through our limitations: practice, practice, practice! good luck with the fun(k).
1. a non-musical, 'lost the time', wannabe show-off vs. chops
2. a perfectly legitimate fill, but i get confused when it's not a 'fill for dummies'.
everyone is responsible for time, always...but that's the only job a drummer has: hitting different parts of the kit is just a way drummers keep time in an 'interesting' way. but if a cat with drums can't keep time = not a drummer.
per the OP: the drummer is keeping dependable time throughout...sometimes we have to work through our limitations: practice, practice, practice! good luck with the fun(k).
You should be able to play that simple repeating 4/4 bass melody line regardless of the subway coming into the station, decelerating, opening the doors etc, and then accelerating out of the subway station. Hyper-awareness of the drummer is a great way to get de-railed (to carry on the metaphor)
Being able to see the drummer makes communication easier, but still, being overly aware of what someone else is doing interferes with your own internal time. Just like we coordinate realities with each other enough live in the same world, a band is individual times coordinated just enough to seem like one. Just like with reality, you Do NOT want to know too much about what the other guy is thinking. Just enough.
Being able to see the drummer makes communication easier, but still, being overly aware of what someone else is doing interferes with your own internal time. Just like we coordinate realities with each other enough live in the same world, a band is individual times coordinated just enough to seem like one. Just like with reality, you Do NOT want to know too much about what the other guy is thinking. Just enough.
