Double Bass Keeping Time

[ricmos]

I've been playing bass since about 2002. Upright bass since mid 2005. I'm now starting to gig in jazz trio and duo configurations (no drummer). Apparently I'm the time keeper. I ALWAYS speed up when I solo and almost always speed up when I start walking. How can I correct this? Generally the guitarist will drop out when I solo and return afterwards and try to restore the right tempo (as do I because I recognize it has gotten fast). I don't speed up indefintely, but I always speed up relative to the starting tempo. It seems like playing to a metronome or click track or any other external timekeeper would not solve my problem--but just teach me to play with a drummer (which I do fine). Once I'm at the gig, the metronome would not be there. Any thoughts on how to stop doing this?

 

[tranquilitybass]

Making the metronome your friend is a great way to improve your sense of time. In my experience, using little tricks with the metronome to force me to feel the pulse has had a great effect on my time.

Here are some good metronome tricks:

Make the metronome count only 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.

Make the click only one beat (only beat 1, only beat 2, only beat 3, etc.).

Feel the metronome clicks as dotted quarter note triplets, or play your exercise in dotted quarter note triplets against a click in four time. You can do this effectively with subdivisions as well.

You may have to calculate where to set it to make it into the division you want. For example, if you want to play only beat 3 at a m.m. of quarter=200, you must set the metronome to play at quarter speed (50), then count until you can get the click to fit in: 'one, two, *click*, four.'

Clap or snap with the metronome until you feel the pulse solidly, then turn it off and keep clapping. Regularly turn the metronome back on and see if you have 'fallen off,' and if so, in which direction (dragging or rushing).

Snap along to your favorite jazz recordings. It can really give you insights into the time feel of your favorite players. You too can be a finger-popping daddio!

Try varying the tempos you set on the metronome and practice in an organized manner (write down your m.m.'s for your practice material and try to improve on it each session). If you always play in a limited number of tempos, you can get stuck always returning to those tempos, as your body has memorized them on some level, if that makes any sense.

Good luck. Hope these tips help; they have served me well.

 

[Matthijs]

+1 on tranquility's suggestions, and here are some more:

I myself was tought to use my whole body as a timekeeper. When you're not only tapping one toe but making it a movement of your whole body it's easier to physicaly remember the tempo and internalise a steady time.

The other is on a whole other level: imo music should not always be in a steady time. If it's done the right way speeding up in your solo might add power. You then only have to find a way to fall back to the original tempo. You might ask the drummer to help you.

 

[Marc Piane]

I like playing along with the greats. Paul Chambers. Sam Jones. Ray Brown. Leroy Vinnegar. And many more.

They were always paired with great drummers too.

I find this a little more interesting than straight metronome work. It also gives you an idea of how different guys play time.

 

[Dave Martin]

Metronome, metronome, metronome.

Since I spent almsot 10 years of my playing career working with a drum machine (Yeah, that was a long time ago...) and most of the last 15 working with a click track in the studio, I'm used to consistent tempi and play that way. These days, unless the leader or the drummer speeds up or slows down, a consistent speed is pretty ingrained.

(If you don't go with the drummer the groove falls all the way apart, and if the leader plays an instrument, you kinda need to go with him since he's the one writing the check....).

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Ditto on what's been said already. Another trick I learned from a drummer is this: When listening to music, keep time by tapping your foot, or by other means. Turn the volume down for several bars and bring the volume back up. Your time should be right on with the music. That's a good test of time. This guy's time is solid. He does it in the car, although I can't recommend it.

 

[accutone]

It seems like playing to a metronome or click track or any other external timekeeper would not solve my problem--but just teach me to play with a drummer (which I do fine). Once I'm at the gig, the metronome would not be there. Any thoughts on how to stop doing this?

As others have said- the metronome. The metronome trains you, it doesn't substitute for the time you hear or feel in your head. Likewise, you are playing with the drummer not to the time the drummer provides. Try playing some simple solos and simple melodies along with the metronome also. This will expose your weak points and help you to correct it.

 

[MingusAmongUs]

In addition to the suggestions above, one thing you might do is ask the guitar player (or piano or whatever's on the gig with you) NOT to lay out during your solos. Have the drummer, when there is one, keep time on the sock cymbal at least. While this may not actually improve your overall inner metronome, it will solve the immediate problem of rushing the time (assuming their time is solid, and that's a pretty outrageous assumption I know!). I like for the band to drop out during my solos once in a while but it's a pet peeve of mine that everyone always does it all the time. I find myself often asking the band not to drop out, but just to comp me softly. It's pretty hard work to accompany yourself, and it ain't fair that you're expected to. Ask the guitar player to chunk quarters -- that should keep the time rock solid.

Again, I wouldn't make a habit of this, or it won't help you in the long run, but it will, at the very least, make you aware of when your time is slipping ahead.

 

[DocBop]

Only answer is lots of practice with a metronome and reducing the number of metronome clicks so your on your own more. So start with click on 2 and 4, then only 1, and even further every other measure. My teacher had a metronome that he can turn the sound off and on. He would set it for 2 and 4 and while I played he would turn off sound for few measures at a time and bring it back in to let me know how I was doing. Good exercise.

 

[anonymous02282011]

metronome: in addition to setting it to click on various down beats, try putting it to off beats and other various subdivisions. If you can hang with say, the the second triplet subdivision in beat three, consistently, you're in good shape.

conceptually: my old teacher used to say "try to make the metronome swing".

peace.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

To alla you guys talking about tapping and moving and beating and whatever - this is something I've never understood. How is it that your foot or your torso or your knodding head is going to have better time than the part of you involved playing an instrument? If you're dividing your focus and concentration, it would seem you have less chance in keeping tempo.

Anyway, that's just me. To RICMOS - what work are you doing with a metronome now? Do you have a teacher and if so, what are you working on with them?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

To alla you guys talking about tapping and moving and beating and whatever - this is something I've never understood. How is it that your foot or your torso or your knodding head is going to have better time than the part of you involved playing an instrument? If you're dividing your focus and concentration, it would seem you have less chance in keeping tempo.

Anyway, that's just me. To RICMOS - what work are you doing with a metronome now? Do you have a teacher and if so, what are you working on with them?

Ashley Alexander, a band leader out of Texas in the early '80's told me during a clinic that all the great bass players he knew kept time by alternating left foot, right foot as in marching. I thought that was a bit extreme.

FWIW, my earlier comment was to only use a physical body motion as an aid while music is muted. Of course, time is internal. I only occasionally catch myself tapping my toe.

 

[accutone]

Or, for those with no sense of time:

http://www.metronomewatch.com/

Just remember to put in fresh batteries before a long gig......

 

[Daniel L.]

To alla you guys talking about tapping and moving and beating and whatever - this is something I've never understood. How is it that your foot or your torso or your knodding head is going to have better time than the part of you involved playing an instrument? If you're dividing your focus and concentration, it would seem you have less chance in keeping tempo.

After awhile your foot will just go on autopilot so you aren't thinking about it. It just gives you a reference. It shouldn't take that much of your focus or concentration to tap your foot. I think it's helpful.

Anyhow, a good exercise is to set a metronome to give you 4 bars of click and then 4 bars of nothing. You'll know if you are off when the click comes back in. Then you can try making it 8 bars, 16 bars, etc.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

After awhile your foot will just go on autopilot so you aren't thinking about it. It just gives you a reference. It shouldn't take that much of your focus or concentration to tap your foot. I think it's helpful.

Wouldn't it make more sense to spend time trying to get your playing to the point that it didn't take any effort to play in time?
Unless my foot is going to be getting its own gigs or something. If it does, I'm NOT giving it a ride, it can ride with the drummer.

DEVIL TAKE THE RICMOS - rather than concentrating on where you want the 'nome to click, concentrate on a few exercises improvising against the click. ANY time you spend improvising with a 'nome (on all 4, on 2 & 4, on 1 & 3, on 1 of every 14th bar)is going to get you closer to feeling improvising in time as a visceral sensation. Staying relaxed, staying open to the moment as an improvisor is what you're shooting for, so you have to practice that. So whenever you get the opportunity - practicing alone, at sessions, playing duo, trio whatever - drag that metronome out.
But over and above just blowing over the nome, you should try to develop some improvisational exercises that will challenge your attention and push you to maintain that relaxed feeling. I've posted a methodology on learning a standard here that places some rhythmic parameters on your improvisation, that you have to change. Keeping that relaxed and playing with the nome, not just against it or over it.

 

[ricmos]

Thanks for the responses. A lot of good suggestions, I'm sure. I bought a good digital seiko metronome in 1988 but it doesn't have any fancy settings like what has been described in the threads. Which metronome can give me the types of options (beat 2 and 4, 1 and 3, off for X measures and then back on, etc.)?

I don't have access to any teachers being in a failry remote area. I have had some lessons (just enough to get started). I have to travel 12 hours (to the NJ area where I have previous band connections) just to get opportunities to play at all.

I do pat my foot but it follows my brain. Funny thing about that. I generally know the music quite well (having listened and played it on other instruments for decades). I believe I speed up for a few reasons:

1. excitement at playing a gig (or playing with someone else since I rarely get to)
2. nervousness (playing with someone else since I rarely get to)
3. inexperience with the bass (and playing with someone else since I rarely get to)

Ric

 

[jsbarber]

Sounds like the solution to your problem is play more with other musicians, since you rarely get to... Can you find anyone near where you live that you can play with more regularly, even just a guitarist or pianist?

 

[Phil Rowan]

+1 on the post right above me. If it's possible, it's always good to play with people who are a bit more advanced than you.

I'm sure you already do this, but listen to a lot of recordings of great music...be it jazz, classical, rock, etc, etc. Of course, it's a good way to work your rhythmic muscles by tapping on certain beats. But also be aware of the groove and the feel that music gives. If you're having a little Ray Brown thing, check him out...transcribe some solos/lines, but also get his sound and pure groove inside you. You don't necessarily have to think so much about it at first, as much as you have to feel it in your body.

And as most have said already, use a metronome. If you're playing scales, an étude, walking on blues or rhythm changes through the keys, etc etc etc, use a metronome. And work on all tempos, slow to fast and everything in between. Don't worry that you'll end up sounding like a drummer, since after all, we ARE drummers. Work to a point where you can bury that metronome tap..where your time/feel is so spot on that you don't hear the 'click' anymore while playing with the metronome. When you play with other musicians, sure, the time/tempo might shift slightly (even imperceptibly), even if everyone's got excellent time.

These is be my .2 cents.

 

[Michael Case]

What Ed said. I would like to add this, record yourself playing at your gig. When you listen back listen to your tendencies, do you rush or drag during your solos, are your quarter notes given full value, stuff like that influences whether your playing rushes or drags. Once you get an idea of what is causing your problems, practice with the nome with a focus on the issue at hand. Record your practice as well and listen back with a critical ear.

 

[kjh]

Hi.

I struggled with the same problem, and here's what helped me keep a steady walking-tempo.
I found that I rushed because I was a little ahead on the downbeat.
So when I focused on relaxing, nailing the 1 and 3 and emphasized/accentuated the 2 and 4, I made progress and can now easy play steady without a drummer.

I did also programme a count-in-click on a drum-machine, followed by silence for 2 bars, then a click on 1, followed by another silent 2 bars etc.

Good luck.

Kjetil.