Double Bass Keeping Time

[Ed Fuqua]

John Goldsby in the house, yo.


That's another in the long line of t-shirts I keep threatening to have printed up -

"Rests are notes, too."

 

[christ andronis]

John Goldsby in the house, yo.

scratch-scratch-scratch-whuppa-whuppa......

 

[anonymous02282011]

if anyones interested, i am professional foot tapper as well as a bassist. weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc.

i can tap my foot and play at the same time, but the unions' doubling fees would apply.

serious inquiries only.

 

[John Goldsby]

John Goldsby in the house, yo.


That's another in the long line of t-shirts I keep threatening to have printed up -

"Rests are notes, too."

Thanks Ed, thanks Christ. If you print up those T-shirts, I gotta get one.

On another note -- I started thinking about the metronome and I was reminded of my early years (maybe 30 years ago) when I was really trying hard to improve my time. I would sleep with the metronome on. Really. I figured it couldn't hurt. I had one of the first electric, plug-in types. It was sorta loud, so I put it in a cabinet, clicking away at whatever tempo -- and then I would go to sleep with it on.

Honestly, I think I was looking for a shortcut that probably did nothing except cause me to have an annoying click during what should have been my restful, sleeping hours. I think I tried this method for about a week before I recognized the folly of my ways, and decided that maybe I should just practice a whole lot with the thing.

Oh -- and I did practice a WHOLE LOT with the thing during the day. Still do.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I must have read the same article, I was doing a boat gig and put my little battery nome at 60bpm and am just sitting in the cabin reading and sh*t. The tenor player (with whom I'm sharing the cabin) comes in, looks at me, looks at the nome and looks back at me and says "Why do you need to remind me?" turns around an walks out.

There was a nice little discussion of time, feeling the time stream, hearing time like you hear harmony etc. a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[John Goldsby]

There was a nice little discussion of time, feeling the time stream, hearing time like you hear harmony etc. a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up.

I'd like to read that . . .

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I've found that it is valuable to learn to play a solid groove without having to tap or bob or shake any other body parts, other than the ones (arms, hands and fingers) that you absolutely need to get the sound out of the bass.

Then, if it feels good, go ahead and tap and shake and bob.

I agree, with the caveat that playing any instrument is basically moving your body (or parts of it) in time. To me, there is a physical choreography to each person's timekeeping, and that choreography is worthy of consideration. Bypassing the argument about whether it's helpful to tap feet or not, it's obviously essential for the parts of the body producing the sounds to be involved in timekeeping. Fast tempos tend to encourage smaller motions, slower tempos bigger ones, and different types of grooves form different types of "dances" (for lack of a better word) for the arms, shoulders, and torso involved in playing them.

Where I get nervous about these conversations is with the concept of "internal time". While I think I know what that means, the true measure of it can only be taken once it is externalized and put into action and sound; otherwise, having great internal time is about as useful as having great intentions...and we all know which toll road that paves.

If anybody ever does find one of those "rests are notes, too" t-shirts available, please give the rest of us a heads up, what? Those would be good for a lotta laughs.

 

[John Goldsby]

Fast tempos tend to encourage smaller motions, slower tempos bigger ones, and different types of grooves form different types of "dances" (for lack of a better word) for the arms, shoulders, and torso involved in playing them.

I always liked Adam Nussbaum's clinic rap where he says the "motion makes the sound." I think his idea applies to any instrument.

 

[milomo]

KARNDAWG - yeah, but I'm just sitting at my desk avoiding working on the 08 budget. But to focus a little, it's not really about whether to tap or not to tap. It's about whther or not tapping is going to do anything to help the OP and his original concern of not being able to take a solo without rushing like a bastard. If he's playing in time, it doesn't matter what he does. If he's NOT playing in time, he needs to do specific work to deal with that. My contention is that tapping your foot is NOT specific work that helps improve your time.

Yeah, I hear you. It was just a general commentary on the subject up to that point, and the subsequent posts I had a feeling were on the way. As far as whether tapping is something in and of itself that will help shaky time, I think there is (a little) something to it. The OP's problem does not necessarily mean he has inherent bad time. It could be that the "pressure" of no drums/inexperience in the format, as well as just dealing with the different mental and physical aspects of playing the instrument and doing the job are distracting our man from holding the tempo. I think some kind of physical expression of a tempo away from the instrument, whether it's tapping or finger-snapping, can be a good thing for building up an organic feeling for time as long as it is fact-checked against a metronome (I agree with you that the metronome is indispensible). If his time on a basement level is cool, and it's just the combination of the above mentioned factors that's distracting him, that's a different thing than if his time is fundamentally weak. Like I said, a little something.

As far as who's right, Eddie or Sam, I can only say, Yes.

You are wise, oh Fuquan one.

 

[christ andronis]

Where I get nervous about these conversations is with the concept of "internal time". While I think I know what that means, the true measure of it can only be taken once it is externalized and put into action and sound; otherwise, having great internal time is about as useful as having great intentions...and we all know which toll road that paves.

Well, yeah. This is the problem I have with colleagues at my school
when we talk about learning. There are basically two types: covert and overt. The overt learning is easy to assess cause it's there for you to see. Covert learning though, hmmmm...until it's externalized, how do you know whether or not the student has got it? Like I said before, you don't know if someone's time is good or not till you hear them playing. Then it doesn't really matter what they're moving, if it's working for them...

Good point Chris.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I'd like to read that . . .

Here ya go. NYPIANO is Jon Raney, whom you know, talking about his dad, whom you knew and played with.

 

[John Goldsby]

Thanks, Ed!