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Double Bass Keeping Time

#21
jsbarber said:
Sounds like the solution to your problem is play more with other musicians, since you rarely get to... Can you find anyone near where you live that you can play with more regularly, even just a guitarist or pianist?
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No, unfortunately there is no one. I've been looking for several years. If I want to play 70s rock, folk, country or irish, there's "more" opportunity. That's not saying much though. That's why I breakdown and drive down to Jersey for my fix every 2 months or so.

Anyone have an ideas about which fancy metronome to buy?

Ric
 
#22
Ed and Tranquility have pretty much nailed it, IMO. I would only add that when you practise with a metronome it is important (essential?) that you count actively as you play, rather than letting it do the counting and just playing along in time. The metronome should be a guide, not a crutch.

As far as the groups you play in are concerned, I would say that as a bass player you are always a timekeeper, regardless of whether or not there is a drummer.

Dr. Beat by Boss is a great metronome, in answer to your other question, Ric.
 
#23
I say practice with the metronome on all 4 beats. We are not talking about feel, we are talking about time. Once you have that solid, you can start to work on where you want to place the beat.
If you can walk and make it feel good with the metronome on all 4 then you know you are getting somewhere.
I also reccomend running scales with it on 40 or 20 bpm. Then you really get control of space. Good time playing equals good control of the space between beats - the more space you can control the better your time is.
When most look at a late painting by Mondrian like the one below they see a few blocks of color and some lines, when actually the white paint takes up most of the surface.
Controling space in music as a whole should be an active thing.
I also think a straight forward metronome is just fine.
 
#24
Ed Fuqua said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to spend time trying to get your playing to the point that it didn't take any effort to play in time?
Unless my foot is going to be getting its own gigs or something. If it does, I'm NOT giving it a ride, it can ride with the drummer.
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Does tapping your foot keep you from spending more time getting your playing to that point? You make it seem like I'm trying to play trumpet with my foot. Or that by tapping my foot I'm ignoring internalizing the time. It's an aid in keeping time.

Obviously it's not a replacement for developing good time. However, it can be very helpful if you are playing something unfamiliar, soloing, counting bars, etc. Again, it gives you a reference.

Try it. If you don't like it don't do it. I find it helpful, and I know others do too.
 
#25
ricmos, don't buy no fancy metronome. you can mentally put that "click" on any subdivision of any beat, then construct your basslines around that. that'll make you actively count every subdivision. Soon, you will internalize those divisions, but that takes time.
 
#26
Daniel LeClaire said:
Does tapping your foot keep you from spending more time getting your playing to that point? You make it seem like I'm trying to play trumpet with my foot. Or that by tapping my foot I'm ignoring internalizing the time. It's an aid in keeping time.

Obviously it's not a replacement for developing good time. However, it can be very helpful if you are playing something unfamiliar, soloing, counting bars, etc. Again, it gives you a reference.

Try it. If you don't like it don't do it. I find it helpful, and I know others do too.
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I did, I don't and I won't. And I'll continue to point out how working on patting your foot in time is just a waste of time; time that could be better spent actually learning to play music in time. Again, if you're playing something unfamiliar you can either concentrate on the playing or concentrate on foot tapping. If you're playing is dragging, your foot tapping will be dragging too.

Your experience is that it's a good idea. My experience is that it's a waste of time. RICMOS can decide whose experience speaks most to what he wants to do.
 
#27
Ed Fuqua said:
And I'll continue to point out how working on patting your foot in time is just a waste of time; time that could be better spent actually learning to play music in time.
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I don't spend time working on tapping my foot. I just do it. Again, it's not anything difficult. It doesn't take that much coordination. It's not like I set a click and practice tapping my foot. I don't get where all this 'wasted time' is coming from.

OP was having trouble keeping time while playing without any comping. Tapping your foot is a good way to feel the beat and keep time. Try it out, if you don't like it then no harm done.
 
#28
Daniel LeClaire said:
OP was having trouble keeping time while playing without any comping. Tapping your foot is a good way to feel the beat and keep time.
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Well, here's the problem. HOW is tapping your foot " a good way to....keep time" if you CAN'T keep time playing? The YOU that is playing and rushing like a bastard is the same YOU that is tapping the foot, right? So, Dan, what's the mechanism that is making the foot's time better than the foot "owner's" time?
 
#31
For what it's worth, Emily Remler used to tap her left foot on 2 and 4. She told me that she imagined she was playing the hi hat. She said it helped her to lock in with the drummer. She had great time anyway though so who knows if it actually did anything for her or if it was just a mental crutch.

Personally, I usually don't tap. When I do tap or bob my head or move my body, it isn't done consciously. It's all in the moment and only happens when I'm relaxed.

The metronome thing is super important. I usually practice tunes with the metronome on 2 and 4. I'll play super slow (40 bpm) to really fast (320-400 bpm) and multiple places in between. The extremes are the hardest. At super slow tempos, it is hard to feel the pulse. At extremely fast tempos, it is hard to play the time without turning it around.

I'll walk lines for a while and then solo. If I'm having trouble with the time while soloing, I'll trade with myself. Walk 4 bars, solo 4 bars, walk, solo etc. This routine kills two birds with one stone so to speak, I work on my time and learn new tunes at the same time.

Even though I've been doing this for decades, if I stop practicing with the metronome, my time starts to suffer within a few weeks so it is a daily part of my practice routine.

mark
 
#32
Ed Fuqua said:
Well, here's the problem. HOW is tapping your foot " a good way to....keep time" if you CAN'T keep time playing? The YOU that is playing and rushing like a bastard is the same YOU that is tapping the foot, right? So, Dan, what's the mechanism that is making the foot's time better than the foot "owner's" time?
Click to expand...


I assumed the OP was competent enough to keep basic time. The OP said he is struggling when there is no accompaniment during his solos. Tapping his foot will give him a reference to the quarter. This is especially helpful if you are playing rhythms that are not straight quarters, as is often the case when soloing.

Now obviously if you are struggling with basic time keeping than, yes Ed, tapping won't help you. Again, I assumed he was competent to already be keeping decent time.

:hiding:
 
#37
Excellent advice on the metronome, esp working very slow and very fast tempos and doing the 2 and 4.

Now for a different opinion on foot tapping or bobbing or whatever.

I was taught by a jazz piano instructor that foot tapping was a no-no. I guess piano players use their feet for other things, but whatever.

He taught that should be internalized by mentally counting until it becomes second nature and you hear the "click" in your head. It took me six months of work to make it so, but it was worth it.

I occasionally tap if doing a polyrhythm thing in an orchestra or tap the one on very uptempo numbers.

I never bob or otherwise move my body. I used to bob, because I watched a bass instruction video (the American Idol guy) where he said all good bass players should move their body when they play. Au Contraire! On a session, the drummer with a click track in his headset said I got off time when I bobbed, so I quit that and never went back.
 
#39
I do tap my foot sometimes. I haven't tried to as a means to keep in time. I will though as an experiment.

To be clear on my metronome question, are there metronomes that you can set for beat 2 and 4, 1 and 3 etc., or are you just to imagine that that's what's going on?

Nice discourse!
Ric
 

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