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Keith Richards...On Bass!

#73
klyph said:
I’ve had the pleasure of playing a Hofner President. They are pretty small for that style bass. More slender side to side than a Kay or Vox, but deeper. They sound deeper than a Beatle Bass. Thicker neck, too.
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I love the way those things look and sound, very expensive though for a bass I probably wouldn't use very often.

Stu Sutcliffe also makes them look huge:

ff34f464af0b59cfbcb6138157528b83.jpg
 
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#74
Eikari said:
But regarding Stones bass players. Keith and Ron play bass as guitarists normally do, busy and in rhythm with the guitars. Bill was more subtle and even counterpoint melody once in a while, like Angie.
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Can't agree with that. I hear this offhand comment all the time, and it's said like there's no question about it. I've put some thought into this over the years, and this is my take on it, and of course is strictly my opinion, not saying you're wrong.
First let's look at the bass's role, which is that it's primarily a rhythm instrument, but should also tie the rhythm to the melody, matching it sometimes, being a counterpart sometimes. And again maybe it's just me, but I hear a distinct difference between I guess an 'English' style of bass playing, and an "American" style of bass playing (Stay with me here.)
Before I get to the difference, I think the cause of the difference is that music training and appreciation has been a lot bigger part of the English school system than it ever was in America. Just the emphasis on choir alone can account for so many English bands with every member who can sing their ass off. So to begin with I'm saying English kids had/have a huge leg up on a basic knowledge of the structure of music, melodies and harmonies. If they don't still it's because of a collapse in their system as our k - 12 system has gotten even further away from emphasizing music training at all.
Now what I'm getting to in the difference in styles - I think especially from the beginning of rock/blues in America, and then through the seventies and into the 80's, American bass players were firmly rooted in the basic blues style and method. Then our music is discovered in England and by the early Sixties they are giving it back to us with their spin. And a big part of their 'spin' was from the bass, which what I hear is the American blues style augmented with elements of classical music, specifically baroque bass lines and how they worked in composition as countermelodies. So what you accuse Keith and Ronnie of, I hear the same thing in Ronnie Lane, Jack Bruce, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, Rick Gresch, Colin Moulding, Peter Hook and of course Paul McCartney along with many others. It even is evident in punk. Listen to the bassists in all the variations of The Fall. Mark Smith always found a bassist that could complement with very simple melodies along with the carnage. (Guess he needed something melodic in there since it wasn't going to be his voice. LOL!) Again, it's emphasis on the rhythm in my "American" style, emphasis on melody in my 'English" style. When I said Bill Wyman is absolutely authentic and true to the style, that's what I meant - he is a perfect example of a 'real' (American-style) blues/r&b bassist. On this side of the water, two American bassists that were big influences of mine that i think went further toward the melody than the average American bassist were Jack Casady and Timmy Bogert.
Now I won't argue at all that, yes, normally when a guitarist tries to 'play' the bass, it's a kluge and they have no idea how to hold down the true rhythmic, deep down drive necessary from the bass, but I don't hear that in Ronnie or Keith.
Damn that was long winded. But hopefully of interest to some. Sorry.
 
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#75
Freight Train said:
Can't agree with that. I hear this offhand comment all the time, and it's said like there's no question about it. I've put some thought into this over the years, and this is my take on it, and of course is strictly my opinion, not saying you're wrong.
First let's look at the bass's role, which is that it's primarily a rhythm instrument, but should also tie the rhythm to the melody, matching it sometimes, being a counterpart sometimes. And again maybe it's just me, but I hear a distinct difference between I guess an 'English' style of bass playing, and an "American" style of bass playing (Stay with me here.)
Before I get to the difference, I think the cause of the difference is that music training and appreciation has been a lot bigger part of the English school system than it ever was in America. Just the emphasis on choir alone can account for so many English bands with every member who can sing their ass off. So to begin with I'm saying English kids had/have a huge leg up on a basic knowledge of the structure of music, melodies and harmonies. If they don't still it's because of a collapse in their system as our k - 12 system has gotten even further away from emphasizing music training at all.
Now what I'm getting to in the difference in styles - I think especially from the beginning of rock/blues in America, and then through the seventies and into the 80's, American bass players were firmly rooted in the basic blues style and method. Then our music is discovered in England and by the early Sixties they are giving it back to us with their spin. And a big part of their 'spin' was from the bass, which what I hear is the American blues style augmented with elements of classical music, specifically baroque bass lines and how they worked in composition as countermelodies. So what you accuse Keith and Ronnie of, I hear the same thing in Ronnie Lane, Jack Bruce, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, Rick Gresch, Colin Moulding, Peter Hook and of course Paul McCartney along with many others. It even is evident in punk. Listen to the bassists in all the variations of The Fall. Mark Smith always found a bassist that could complement with very simple melodies along with the carnage. (Guess he needed something melodic in there since it wasn't going to be his voice. LOL!) Again, it's emphasis on the rhythm in my "American" style, emphasis on melody in my 'English" style. When I said Bill Wyman is absolutely authentic and true to the style, that's what I meant - he is a perfect example of a 'real' (American-style) blues/r&b bassist. On this side of the water, two American bassists that were big influences of mine that i think went further toward the melody than the average American bassist were Jack Casady and Timmy Bogert.
Now I won't argue at all that, yes, normally when a guitarist tries to 'play' the bass, it's a kluge and they have no idea how to hold down the true rhythmic, deep down drive necessary from the bass, but I don't hear that in Ronnie or Keith.
Damn that was long winded. But hopefully of interest to some. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I read that Ron Wood likely played the bass on "Hang Fire" and I think that's an excellent bass line, fwiw.
 

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