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Keyboard amp for bass? (Traynor content)

Stereo Joe

Stereo Joe

Jun 29, 2007
980
48
Ontario, Canada
#1
Does anyone here use a keyboard amp for bass or has in the past?

I was looking at the new Traynor amps and saw this:

http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=9&cat=57&id=406

What a GREAT idea for an amp!! I love the tilt back monitor design AND the ability to mount it on a speaker stand for more projection. I also think the monitor input is a wonderful idea and the stereo link capabilities. Basically, this amp sounds like it has all the right features for me as a small rig except it's not a bass amp...

Would there be any difficulties using a bass into a keyboard amp? Is the output from a bass different than what a keyboard would put out? Would the EQ curves be useless for bass?

Just looking for thoughts or someone with experience in this matter.

Thanks!
 
#2
If you are looking for something in the same power range, I would recommend the Carvin BR15. Same tilt back idea, but it's a bass amp.

Link Removed

A friend of mine just picked one up. I played his jazz bass through it and it sounded great. If you want the same setup with more power, try the BR615. I'm not a big fan of the Carvin BR series 210s or I'd recommend the BR610.

There are other kickback designs, but I recommended the Carvins because they came to mind right away.
 
#3
buckminster said:
If you are looking for something in the same power range, I would recommend the Carvin BR15. Same tilt back idea, but it's a bass amp.

Link Removed

A friend of mine just picked one up. I played his jazz bass through it and it sounded great. If you want the same setup with more power, try the BR615. I'm not a big fan of the Carvin BR series 210s or I'd recommend the BR610.

There are other kickback designs, but I recommended the Carvins because they came to mind right away.
Click to expand...

That does look like a very nice bass amp! However, there a couple features that still make the Traynor seem very attractive: multiple channels, stereo linking ability, speaker stand mount.

Anyone else know if the Traynor K1 could handle bass OK?
 
#4
It'll work, but those extra features are for the capabilities of a stereo keyboard instrument. I can't see how that amp would be "better" for a bass than a bass amp, but a bass will certainly make a noise coming out of that amp, get it? I think it would be a better idea to find yourself a bass amp with the features that you like.
 
#5
I'm a keyboard player, and I wouldn't recommend a keyboard amp for bass. Lots of reasons why, and I'm sure I'll leave out a few, but:
1. Cabinets are not tuned for bass.
2. Keyboards have a much hotter signal so the gain is lower.
3. The preamps in keyboard amps are optimized for keyboards.
4. While you can get a bass to sound, it won't sound deep and low notes will probably buzz.

I had top line keyboard amps (Barbetta and Motion Sound). The Motion Sound bass was virtually non-existent. The Barbetta sounded much better, but not like a bass amp. My bass player friend plugged into my Motion Sound amp, and he hardly got any volume out of it.

I'm in the middle of replacing a bunch of equipment, decided to go with components rather than an all-in-one combo amp, and I bought a Scroeder cab and a Markbass LM head to use with my keyboards. This combination sounds nothing like my keyboard amps (not better, not worse, just different). Crisp highs for keyboard are different than crisp highs for bass. I think I'm also having an impedance problem because there is a hum with my keyboard plugged into the Markbass LM, and the gain is just barely on and it is peaking. My friend plugged his bass into it, and we had to turn the gain up 3/4 of the way. You could have the opposite problem using a keyboard amp for bass.

My whole point here, is that it is probably better to use something that is made for and optimized for a particular instrument. I may have to go back to equipment optimized for keyboard, but I'll be jealous of the bass players using a 20lb Schroeder mini 12+ w/neos and 6lb 500 watt Markbass heads.


Steve
 
#7
I had a Carvin BR610 that had a tilt back design. Loved the design but didn't really like how it sounded. I could get into having a tilt back amp though. GK makes a big one, Markbass makes one as does SWR, I believe.

Speaker stand mount SOUNDS like a a good idea, but why would you want to put a bass amp any higher than you? Speaker stands IMO are for speakers projecting what comes out of the PA to the audience only. If I use a bass amp, it is for stage sound mainly. I WANT the amp behind me so I can hear/feel what I am playing. Not 6 or 7 feet in the air (behind me OR in front of me). Just my $0.02.
 
#8
jim primate said:
i've heard good things about the roland keyboard amp with the 15 in it and a bass.
Click to expand...

My guitar player has one of these and I really like it. For low level practices it's worked really well. I'd reccomend putting a good preamp in front of it though, as someone else mentioned, the preamps are designed for -10 or +4 db inputs from a keyboard, not our low level basses. It was hissing a bit.
 
#9
Interesting thread. Like Stereo Joe, I'm wondering whether a single amp can serve both keyboards and bass guitar well, though like maestrosteve, I'm coming at it from the opposite angle, as a keyboardist. I do a lot of gigs where my left hand is covering bass (sorry, bass players). To make it sound more like a real bassist, I send my bass guitar patch out to a separate bass amp (an Ashdown MAGC115T, 15" 300 watt combo), which sounds great, while the rest of my keys go to a Behringer powered PA cabinet. The Ashdown's solo 15 can't handle keyboard highs, and the Behringer can't crank bass guitar lows. But I'm tired of carrying two amps to gigs (and honestly, even the Ashdown alone is heavier than I'd like). So I'm trying to see if I can get one amp that will be good for everything.

Stereo Joe asked about the Traynor K4 in that earlier thread... no one seemed too excited about the idea, though I don't know that Joe or anyone ever actually had a chance to try it. I wouldn't be putting an actual bass guitar through it, though... it would be a bass guitar patch from a keyboard. But I do want it to have the depth and force it has when playing through a bass amp. The Traynor has some other nice features... stereo, and a tube channel, though it's still a bit heavy. Besides the K4, I was also looking at the Barbetta, which I see maestrosteve said was not comparable to a bass amp, though I'm not sure what model(s) he's heard.

But alternatively, I wonder if there's a good bass amp for keyboards. I'm intrigued by maestrosteve's approach, a lightweight head into a lightweight cabinet (or better, a light combo), something designed for bass (giving me the benefit of the Ashdown), but lighter, and also with a high frequency driver that might make it suitable for keys. The idea of a 20 lb cabinet and a 6 lb head to cover all my keyboard and pseudo-bass needs is indeed !something to be envious of!

Has anyone--maestrosteve or anyone else--gotten a rig like this to work satisfactorily? Last Steve posted (in this thread, anyway), he was having some kind of matching problem. Even just replacing my Ashdown with something like this would cut the bass half of my rig in half (weight-wise), but it would be a much bigger benefit (and be more cost-effective as well) if such an amp could also replace the keyboard half. Thoughts?
 
#10
to AnotherScott:


You are not coming at it from a different angle. I am a keyboard player that has to play keyboard bass on some occasions and found keyboard amps lacking.

On my original post, I mentioned using the Schroeder Mini 12+L and a Markbass LM II head. I've replaced the Markbass head with an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R, Series III head and it has made a big difference for me. The Markbass head had a preamp optimized for bass, where the AI head is not optimized for any particular instrument, and is used by acoustic guitar players, keyboard players and bass players. I'm extremely happy with this setup, and I also had Jorg Schroeder build me a 15+L, but instead of his bullet tweeter which does not deliver the best high end for keyboards, I had him build it for me with a Selenium DT150 horn. The high end is great, and the lows are probably a bit better because the cab is actually about an inch and a half wider and deeper to accommodate the slightly larger size horn. The Selenium horn is a few pounds less than the bullet tweeter, so weight is the same with the slightly larger cab.

I can't fit that horn in my mini 12 (which I would love to do), and I'm considering replacing the bullet tweeter in the mini 12 with a Beyma CP22 or CP21, which will give me the high end I'm looking for. In the meantime, this mini 12 covers 90% of my gigs. It's loud, clean sounding, and incredibly light to carry. The 15+L covers the other 10% of my gigs. I'll never use a strictly keyboard amp again.
 
#12
Thanks for the update, maestrosteve!

Yes, you and I are coming at it from the same angle, as keyboardists considering bass gear, as opposed to Stereo Joe who was a bassist considering keyboard gear. I'd still be curious to know how a bass guitar patch sounds through a Traynor K4... and I may actually have a chance to try that out next week. Though the 57 pounds is still a killer.

Very interesting that you swapped to the Acoustic Image amp, and it makes a lot of sense as you describe it. Did you consider their Contra and Coda+ amps? 20 pounds total (amp+speaker cab) make it even lighter than your rig, and being self-contained, doesn't require the extra time to pack/unpack a head and cable it up. I wonder if their different tweeter (and 3-way configuration) wouldn't have prompted you to need to replace the HF driver as you did on the Schroeder. My guess is the Schroeder might go louder, though...?
 
#13
I've got a Roland keyboard amp in each practice space (I play in two locations), one with a 15 and one with a 12. These are probably about 10 years old but in pretty good shape as not heavily used. I've used both of them with a bass in practice situations and they are OK for that. Certainly the 15 will suffice for practices. But they're not focused sonically to give a good result for a gig. Plus they weigh a ton - I refuse to take them out anywhere, just too heavy.

I should add that there's a keyboard in each location as well, and as keyboard amps they're very good.
 
#14
AnotherScott said:
Thanks for the update, maestrosteve!

Did you consider their Contra and Coda+ amps? 20 pounds total (amp+speaker cab) make it even lighter than your rig, and being self-contained, doesn't require the extra time to pack/unpack a head and cable it up. I wonder if their different tweeter (and 3-way configuration) wouldn't have prompted you to need to replace the HF driver as you did on the Schroeder. My guess is the Schroeder might go louder, though...?
Click to expand...

The maximum SPL on those Contra and Coda amps/speakers are WAY below what I need. They just don't produce enough sound. I'm pretty sure that the max SPL on those Coda and Contra speakers are about 117db, while the Schroeder gets into the high 120s. The Contra and Coda speakers, at low volume, probably sound better across the board-high to low, but I'd need 3 of those to match the volume of one Schroeder mini 12.
 
#15
maestrosteve said:
The maximum SPL on those Contra and Coda amps/speakers are WAY below what I need
Click to expand...

Yeah, the specs do seem to indicate that the Acoustic Image amps don't crank... though everyone seems to agree they sound great if you can use them within their volume limits.

I was comparing (on paper) their Ten2 to a Markbass Mini CMD 121P. They are about the same size and weight, the Ten2 is 800 watts into a pair of 10s, the Markbass is 300 watts into a 12. But if my math is right, Markbass' 99 dB sensitivity spec would yield a max SPL of about 123 dB, whereas the Ten2 has a max SPL of about 116 dB (though it also goes a bit deeper).
 

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