Keys vs Chords - what should I focus on more?

[Lowness]

If you are composing, you start with the key,

If you are just following prepared music, you care about the chords.

 

[Lowness]

Now that I'm not having to type on a doggone phone, let me expound on why it's pointless to make this an either/or scenario...

So you have a song and the key and the chords. Obviously when you have a chord that has notes that are not in the key, the chord notes take precedence. But why is the key still relevant? Because it informs your passing notes! You can have some of the exact same chord changes in two different songs, but while your chord tones will be the same, maybe one key will suggest different passing notes than another. And that is why it's pointless to decide which is more important. They are both important and relevant to your note choices. Period.

Not really.

The chord dictates a leading tone. No point using an in key leading tone if it is too far from your chord.

 

[JimmyM]

Not really.

The chord dictates a leading tone. No point using an in key leading tone if it is too far from your chord.

Here's why that's not always right...

Say you're going in between two chords...let's take Eb and Cm. If you are in the key of Eb, you would probably use a D as a passing tone to get to the Cm, but if you're in the key of Ab, you would probably want to use a Db.

 

[Lowness]

Here's why that's not always right...

Say you're going in between two chords...let's take Eb and Cm. If you are in the key of Eb, you would probably use a D as a passing tone to get to the Cm, but if you're in the key of Ab, you would probably want to use a Db.

You don't have to use diatonic passing notes; my leading notes are always a half-step either side - sounds great and I have better things to think about.

 

[JimmyM]

You don't have to use diatonic passing notes; my leading notes are always a half-step either side - sounds great and I have better things to think about.

And that makes what I said wrong because...?

 

[interp]

Which is longer, a piece of string or a piece of twine?

 

[Matthijs]

To the OP: I think your question is mainly about where to focus your learning energy. In het end you'll need both and knowledge about one helps with the other. If focus on the chords helps you now with supporting the bass and the band that's ok. Just be prepared to also grasp the concept of keys for that moment when you either want to expand your own lines, understand the keyboard player when he starts fitting in weird chords: "hey wouldn't it sound great if we'd all play that F#m-9sus4 I'm doing in here?" or when the singer claims: "I can't sing this in Bb, could you please do it in C#?". In the end the two are intertwined, not just in theory but also very much in practice.

 

[Lowness]

And that makes what I said wrong because...?

It makes you wrong because I am not wrong - me being wrong was the premise of your comment.

 

[HelpImaRock]

You're playing bass, nobody else can hear what notes you're playing anyway. Just stay below the fifth fret and on the beat, and move your fretting hand around a little so it looks like you're doing something. Also if you can slap on the beat and pop off the beat once in a while, people like that sort of thing; just don't overdo it. Once per set is the limit. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter much what you're playing as long as you're on the beat and you start and stop at the same time as the rest of the band. If you feel really motivated you can dance around a little, make "guitar face" and give the drummer eye contact. Chicks dig that.

I can't like this enough times.

You can play to the chords. And you'll make pitched noises that go along with the song. Or, you can learn the key, break down the chords, actually know what you're playing and why this note is in that chord, and make music. The audience doesn't care though. They're looking at the singer.

 

[RustyAxe]

And some wonder why I use the ignore list?

 

[JimmyM]

It makes you wrong because I am not wrong - me being wrong was the premise of your comment.

You're being overly sensitive. I didn't say you were wrong...I said you're not always right. Sorry, but some of us use all the information given to decide what to play, and sometimes it makes sense to use the chords AND the key.

 

[Febs]

I'm a little confused about keys and chords. For example a song might have the key specified in b flat, whilst everyone in the band will be just referring to the chords being used and don't care about the key.
Does the key even matter when you have all the chords laid out infront of you?

Well, let's say you have the following two chords in front of you:

| G | C |

You're walking from the G down to the C. Do you play an F or an F#?

Those two chords could be the V chord and I chord in the key of C, in which case I'd play an F as I walked from G to C. But they also could be the I chord and IV chord in the key of G, in which case I'd play an F#. I find it most useful to understand both what the chords are and how they're functioning in the key.

 

[Lowness]

Well, let's say you have the following two chords in front of you:

| G | C |

You're walking from the G down to the C. Do you play an F or an F#?

Those two chords could be the V chord and I chord in the key of C, in which case I'd play an F as I walked from G to C. But they also could be the I chord and IV chord in the key of G, in which case I'd play an F#. I find it most useful to understand both what the chords are and how they're functioning in the key.

I find it easiest to play a chromatic leading tone and just get on with the song.

 

[JimmyM]

I find it easiest to play a chromatic leading tone and just get on with the song.

Chromatic leading tones are OK now and then but I wouldn't want to play a steady diet of them. Fortunately, I don't have to because I recognize both the chords AND the key as being relevant

 

[Febs]

I find it easiest to play a chromatic leading tone and just get on with the song.

I love chromatic leading tones, and use them all the time, but I don't think that they do much to inform the choice of F versus F# in my example.

 

[Lowness]

I love chromatic leading tones, and use them all the time, but I don't think that they do much to inform the choice of F versus F# in my example.

Are you talking about passing notes or the higher process of walking from one chord to the next?

Two different things.

Sure, if you are on beat 2 or 3 of the walk - yeah, your logic holds. If you are on beat 4, or an eighth before the tonic - what you have said makes no sense. The F is hardly a leading tone in going from G to C (in C); it is the sub-dominant.

 

[bigboy_78]

Are you talking about passing notes or the higher process of walking from one chord to the next?

Two different things.

Sure, if you are on beat 2 or 3 of the walk - yeah, your logic holds. If you are on beat 4, or an eighth before the tonic - what you have said makes no sense. The F is hardly a leading tone in going from G to C (in C); it is the sub-dominant.

Not all phrases that involve non-chord tones are 4 to the bar jazz walking.

If I want to drop in a phat-16th note fill at the end of a bar I need to know the relationships between, chord, scales and keys. Or whether I should hit an F or the F#.

 

[LooFunk]

Forgive me if I don't try to answer your question directly. As with your other thread..." Modes - am I getting this right"... you appear to be jumping into theory somewhere in the middle, i.e. you have not started at the beginning. It seems that the more people try to give advice, the more confused the situation becomes. This is not a put down. We have all been there at one time or another. I admire your quest for knowledge. However, if you have not put in the ground work, you are always going to end up confused and out of your dept.

I offer the same advice (and tutorial link) as in your "Modes" thread. Go to the study guide on the "Studybass site (link below), start at the beginning, and SLOWLY work your way through the lessons in chronological order. This way, there are no gaps in the learning process.

Best of luck.


Study Guide | StudyBass

hi, thanks for your honest opinion. I'm a great believer in fundamentals, so I think it's best to go back and start from the beginning like you said!

 

[Lowness]

Not all phrases that involve non-chord tones are 4 to the bar jazz walking.

If I want to drop in a phat-16th note fill at the end of a bar I need to know the relationships between, chord, scales and keys. Or whether I should hit an F or the F#.

Yes, but we were talking about walking.

 

[lfmn16]

Chromatic leading tones are OK now and then but I wouldn't want to play a steady diet of them. Fortunately, I don't have to because I recognize both the chords AND the key as being relevant

It is amazing how strenuously some people will argue against learning their craft. If I had asked my first teacher whether I should learn chords or keys he probably would have thrown something at me.

I never questioned that I had to learn chords, keys, scales, reading music, writing music, sight singing, basic piano, rhythm, dynamics, tone, etc. if you want to be a skilled, versatile musician, you need to learn it all. No tricks, shortcuts, or secrets, just lots of hard work.