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Killed my Deltalite 2512

#21
String Theory said:
You could take your speaker to Orange County Speaker Repair in Garden Grove. They can probably fix it.
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Goof to know, thanks.
wave rider said:
Check that the wiring became loose and is touching the back of the cone before pulling the driver out completely.

I have a BE S12 that would rattle when pushed, one of the wires was a little loose/long and was buzzing by the rear port.

=wr=
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Hope it's that easy, will pull this weekend
 
#22
Arjank said:
With tons of distortion you probably can't tell if the driver wasn't farting out, did you see the cone making large excursions?


It could also be that because of the midheavy tone the driver didn't make enough excursion to cool....when the cone moves the heat that's build up inside the "motor" will be pushed out through the hole in the center of the polepiece. That hole has a few purposes, prevent air compression between dustcap and polepiece and therefore lowering mechanical resistance (Qms gets higher), when designed right it may also lower harmonic distortion and last but not least the release of warm air inside the motor.
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There is grill cloth that prevented me seeing excursion while playing.
 
#23
ashtray said:
With the master dimed, your amp could have been clipping at 2-3x the rated rms power output for hours and you'd not hear it through the distortion.

How did the other cab handle the punishment?.
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Well the amp should make 175w@8ohms each side in stereo mode, and the 2512 is rated 250wrms/500wPeak. So I though I had a decent margin there. Both clip lights (left and right) were steadily going wild for 3 hrs.
The other cab didn't feel a thing, but it was a much more stout animal to begin with. It's fine.
 
#24
175 "clean" watts. Amp clipping? All bets are off.

Sorry - but "both channel clip lights steadily going wild for 3 hours"?! That's some serious "zero f's given" attitude to run it like that - even if you had a 500 watt cab. Something is getting abused.

(didn't mean to sound rude - up at 2am with a sick child and work/school in the morning rapidly approaching...)

You mentioned the cab dimensions and port size - was this speaker designed for those dimensions and cab tuning? If not, a mismatched speaker could get damaged simply from the cab design/tuning when played loud. Its also possible that if you bought the speaker used, it might have lead a hard life and previous owner replaced it for a reason.
 
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#25
rufus.K said:
Well the amp should make 175w@8ohms each side in stereo mode,.
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Amps are power rated at very low distortion. If you push an amp to clipping you can easily get two to four times its rated power from it. Also, speaker power ratings are thermal, how much it will take before the voice coil melts. The displacement limit, how much it will take before mechanical damage, can be half the thermal rating. The symptom you describe is probably mechanical damage, because with a thermal failure the speaker will stop working entirely. It sounds to me like you were trying to get out of your one twelve what you probably needed two fifteens to deliver without damaging them.
I just did a quick software modeling of the 2512 in a 2.5 cu ft cab. With the port size you have its tuned to about 35 hz, and the displacement limited power is 80 watts. Did you software model the speaker? If you had you'd have known its limitations.
 
#26
Many years before I had a conversation with a pro cab builder about the old 2512 (none II).
I was told that many 2512 (none II) speakers suffer on a production fault. I can't remember what caused the issue but it has something to do with motor and/or VC.
 
#27
ThisBass said:
I was told that many 2512 (none II) speakers suffer on a production fault. I can't remember what caused the issue but it has something to do with motor and/or VC.
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I probably had the same issue with an Eminence Alpha 8A, I had four of 'm in a 4x8 cab (series/parallel wiring) and one of the drivers just died. There wasn't any indication that they hit their limit mechanically when that happened and they have a relative small xmax causing them to fart out way before the voice-coil should get burned...
After that incident I got one new driver (thnx to Thomann in Germany) and removed the dustcaps and installed aluminium phase plugs on all four drivers. No incidents after that mod :D. Cool anecdote: for testing the heat transfer to the phaseplug I let one of the modified drivers run for a whole night with a 50hz sine-wave (SPL level just slightly below audible distortion), the next morning the phase plug was hot, very hot, I couldn't touch it with my fingers for more then a split second.
 
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#29
Rick James said:
Amps are power rated at very low distortion. If you push an amp to clipping you can easily get two to four times its rated power from it. Also, speaker power ratings are thermal, how much it will take before the voice coil melts. The displacement limit, how much it will take before mechanical damage, can be half the thermal rating. The symptom you describe is probably mechanical damage, because with a thermal failure the speaker will stop working entirely. It sounds to me like you were trying to get out of your one twelve what you probably needed two fifteens to deliver without damaging them.
I just did a quick software modeling of the 2512 in a 2.5 cu ft cab. With the port size you have its tuned to about 35 hz, and the displacement limited power is 80 watts. Did you software model the speaker? If you had you'd have known its limitations.
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Nope, didnt model it.
Its just a bit smaller than an Aguilar SL112, which is 2.92 cu'. That has a deltalite2512 with a 4" port thats 3.5" long. Didnt feel the need to model after being so close to a proven design.
 
#30
Under the heaviest distortion possible, an amp can deliver no more than the theoretical 2x it's rated undistorted power. A pure square wave is exactly 2 x the power of a sine wave of equal amplitude.
 
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#31
rufus.K said:
Nope, didnt model it.
Its just a bit smaller than an Aguilar SL112, which is 2.92 cu'. That has a deltalite2512 with a 4" port thats 3.5" long. Didnt feel the need to model after being so close to a proven design.
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nah,
2.5 cu ft / 3.5" D / 6" L : cab tuning 34 Hz
2.9 cu ft / 4" D / 3.5" L : cab tuning 40 Hz

Either way I'd prefere a remarkable higher tuning around 45hz-50Hz.

The 3012HO looks somewhat overdamped even with 50Hz, so (probably) I'd give it appro 55Hz cab tuning but, then the cab demands a port of 4" port diameter and around 0.7" port length.
 
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#33
ThisBass said:
nah,
2.5 cu ft / 3.5" D / 6" L : cab tuning 34 Hz
2.9 cu ft / 4" D / 3.5" L : cab tuning 40 Hz

Either way I'd prefere a remarkable higher tuning around 45hz-50Hz.

The 3012HO looks somewhat overdamped even with 50Hz, so (probably) I'd give it appro 55Hz cab tuning but, then the cab demands a port of 4" port diameter and around 0.7" port length.
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So if I replace it with the 3012ho, I need to enlarge it to a 4" port just under an inch long. I can do that.
upload_2016-1-15_8-8-31.png

I noticed the edit, was gonna ask about that
 
#34
Shaving about 1/2 cubic foot off your box and tuning it ~48hz or so help with the mechanical handling, though by your tone/settings description, you may've just overheated and deformed the coil. Too much power/heat over too long of time with little excursion to help cool it. Simply asking too much of a 112.
 
#36
will33 said:
Shaving about 1/2 cubic foot off your box and tuning it ~48hz or so help with the mechanical handling, though by your tone/settings description, you may've just overheated and deformed the coil. Too much power/heat over too long of time with little excursion to help cool it. Simply asking too much of a 112.
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that gig that I did to cook this thing was not the norm, however we have tentative dates in the future, so I gotta get my schiznit together before it comes up again.
methinks you (and others whove said the same) are spot on with it not getting a chance to cool, thus overheating the VC
 
#39
The failure may not be thermal, it could just as likely be mechanical. Making a wrong assumption can lead to just as wrong conclusions.
 
#40
agedhorse said:
The failure may not be thermal, it could just as likely be mechanical. Making a wrong assumption can lead to just as wrong conclusions.
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How will I be able to tell? It still plays cleanly at low volume... just fuzzes at useable volume (well below "loud")


Ive got a Carvin PS15 lying around, i guess I need to build a box for it and use it for that gig instead of a 12.
The other side of the amp was a nEARful 15/6/1 (3015lf/6nd410/asd1001) built from an LS1503, and it never whimpered once.
I cant find any meaningful specs on the Carvin PS15, other than its 400wProgram rating. Still, its gotta be more capable than a single 12.
I brought the 12 out of portability-ness, as the other option was my Ampeg 410he, which I didnt need (in respect to volume). I put the deltalite in it to pair with the SL112 cab and a TH500 head, and they played very nice together.
Ive been thinking replacing it with the 3012HO would be me a cab "in between", more robust than the 2512 loaded, but still good with SL112. Am I barking up the wrong tree?
 

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