In my post about pickups and American Standard, the KNA-DB1 and Vic B model caught my attention. Any comments about their strengths and limitations? Do they capture the low and high notes on the bass? Is one pickup overall a better quality and sound than the other? I appreciate the comments.
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Double Bass KNA-DB1 and Vic Model B
- Thread starter truckplayer
- Start date
I own both, but have never done a direct comparison. Here are a few observations:
1. They are equally “hot.”
2. Taking a cue from Rick Wolff, I mounted the KNA in the treble wing of my full ply 7/8ths for a gig last night. Sounded great. In fact, better than on the E side. The Vic B might sound just as good in that position.
3. About half way through the gig last night, I had to unplug from the PA. So, I cranked the volume on my Clarus/Upshot rig. I was amazed at how much volume I got without any distortion. Combination of all three pieces, I guess.
4. I’m going to use the KNA for now. I’ll put the Vic’s on my hybrid, in the treble wing, and see how it goes.
I don’t think you would make a mistake with either one. Hope this helps.
1. They are equally “hot.”
2. Taking a cue from Rick Wolff, I mounted the KNA in the treble wing of my full ply 7/8ths for a gig last night. Sounded great. In fact, better than on the E side. The Vic B might sound just as good in that position.
3. About half way through the gig last night, I had to unplug from the PA. So, I cranked the volume on my Clarus/Upshot rig. I was amazed at how much volume I got without any distortion. Combination of all three pieces, I guess.
4. I’m going to use the KNA for now. I’ll put the Vic’s on my hybrid, in the treble wing, and see how it goes.
I don’t think you would make a mistake with either one. Hope this helps.
Just my personal opinion simply because Rick Wolff provided some really nice clips of the KNA-DB1 when it first came on the market. It sounded so good
I got one as a backup to my Ehrlund EAP’s. I’ve never been fond of the K&K Bassmax’s timbre. (which is the basis for the Vic’s design) Just my take, others love it
and it’s inexpensive.
I got one as a backup to my Ehrlund EAP’s. I’ve never been fond of the K&K Bassmax’s timbre. (which is the basis for the Vic’s design) Just my take, others love it
and it’s inexpensive.
I'm a Full Circle guy, and have been since they first came out. On my Upton Standard laminate (with removable/adjustable neck), I originally got a Rev Solo pick-up so that I could use a solid bridge but didn't like it, so I switched to a Full Circle and was happy with that sound on that bass. About a year ago I got the KNA so that I could go back to a solid bridge, which definitely improves the acoustic sound of the bass. It sounds pretty good, but is not as nice sounding amplified as with the Full Circle. I did make a Tonedexter wavemap with the KNA which sounded great when used with a 90/10 mic-to-pick-up ratio though. After reading about the Vic's Model B, I thought, why not, for $35? It came today, and I've been doing a quick A/B comparison with the KNA on the treble side and the Model B on the bass side. Installation of the Model B was simple; the pick-up and one of the extra wood shims that came with the KNA made a "just right" fit. I was pleasantly surprised by the sound of the Model B. It was as hot or maybe a little hotter than the KNA, with a somewhat more "open" sound which sounded great at low volume. As I increased the volume, the "openess" of the Model B started to work against it, with a more mid-rangey sound with peaks that wasn't as pleasing to me as the KNA at the same volume. I was able to tame it somewhat by dropping the midrange a bit, so that the result was very similar to the KNA at this higher volume. The jack mounting system for the KNA is far superior to Vic's. The velcro "strap" that came with the Model B broke as I was trying to attach it, and I never did get it to work. A small velcro square fastened to the jack and the back of the tailpiece adequately mounted it. I haven't made a Tonedexter wavemap yet with the Model B, but I expect it will work fine for this. Actually, when you use mostly the mic sound with a Tonedexter wavemap, the pick-up is less important. It should be kept in mind that this was all done at home; on the gig, everything may change!
I think for $35 this is a great deal, and is comparable to the KNA, so if you're on a tight budget or just need a spare pick-up, this is great choice!
I think for $35 this is a great deal, and is comparable to the KNA, so if you're on a tight budget or just need a spare pick-up, this is great choice!
Update: I played another gig with guitar and my bass. Treble side KNA into AI Clarus to PA and Upshot. On my ply 7/8s it sounds great. With the understanding that I’m not experienced with amplification, I think one feature that makes it sound good is how “hot” it is. Compared to Rev Solo, both the gain and master are considerably lower. Less finger noise, less trebly honk, more fullness in the lowest notes. Could that be right?
Wow Bob, the Revolution Solo is a pretty hot, I hadn’t realized that realized that the KNB-DB1 is that much more powerful than the Upton. Good to know, because it’s tone quality is stunning.
Maybe it’s because my two Rev Solos are older? One 7 yrs and one 5 yrs? Is there any truth to the idea of piezo pickups aging?
Bob, there is no more truth to that than there is to the idea that double bass players age. Or, is it as my wife says, that we just never grow up?
You’re only young once, but you can be immature forever.
Price gouging? No one has ever forced me to buy a pickup. And, a pickup is certainly not a necessary commodity that we can't do without. It's certainly possible that some pickups are priced higher than you think they are worth, but that is hardly price gouging, IMHO.
Well, yes and no. Since I can't build my own pickup, I'm at the mercy of those who can. Piezo pickups seem to start out at "introductory" prices and if they become popular the price goes up incrementally in a few years.
That was the case for the Underwood, Realist, Fishman and the Ehrlund EAP. The trick is to try and find one that will hold up for several years. I went through Realists every 3 to 4 years, where my Underwood lasted what
seemed like forever, but the Realist sounded better with a bow so I tolerated the replacement costs. When I originally purchased my Ehrlund EAP directly from Pearl Microphones through a different U.S. distributor, they were about
half the price they cost now, but if one of my two EAP's suddenly "kicked the bucket" I'd be buying one the next day, because the Ehrlund sounds so great on all my basses. I really do think there's a break over point that if you fall
below the pickup you get will not be that great. Just my take. If you're happy with the sound of a $40.00 K&K BassMax clone and it suits your playing then go for it.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I bought a Vic's Model B because I had an impromptu gig to play the next week and needed something to get me started. I had researched for weeks prior to buying the Model B and was certain I would buy the David Gage Realist or Lifeline based on reviews here on TB and sound clips I had listened to but I needed something fast and didn't want to commit to a more expensive pickup without more research. I have since played 10 shows with the Model B.
I play through a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ into a MB Little Mark III driving an Epifani T112 cab for reference. The Model B, for the price, is a good pickup. It is well made and with a lifetime warranty, it should last....a lifetime. I can dial in the EQ on the preamp to get a decent sound but it has never sounded the way I want it. The low notes are very full but there is a definite "quack" that I can almost dial out by bringing down the mids but never without the loss of clarity as a result. It has never had an issue with feedback and with the Fishman preamp, I can get as loud as I need without an issue.
I have been debating adding a mic to my setup to get a more natural sound and came across the Radio Shack tie clip my thread. That lead me to the Audio-Technica ATR3350. Many people used the RS mic, the AT mic, and other similar style mics with great success and talk about how natural the bass sounds by placing the mic inside the f hole, and some have even fully submerged the mic inside the body. My ATR3350 is coming tomorrow and my hope is that it will replace the Model B but if not, my idea is to blend it with the pickup, using the HPF to allow the Model B to handle the low end while using the mic to fill out the the mids and highs. This AT mic is $35 and has a built in power supply so it doesn't require phantom power, allowing it to plug directly into the amp, provided the impedance is high enough.
The takeaway I suppose is that the Model B is cheap, works, can sound good with the right EQ, but is still a simple piezo pickup which has inherent limitations to sound reproduction.
I play through a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ into a MB Little Mark III driving an Epifani T112 cab for reference. The Model B, for the price, is a good pickup. It is well made and with a lifetime warranty, it should last....a lifetime. I can dial in the EQ on the preamp to get a decent sound but it has never sounded the way I want it. The low notes are very full but there is a definite "quack" that I can almost dial out by bringing down the mids but never without the loss of clarity as a result. It has never had an issue with feedback and with the Fishman preamp, I can get as loud as I need without an issue.
I have been debating adding a mic to my setup to get a more natural sound and came across the Radio Shack tie clip my thread. That lead me to the Audio-Technica ATR3350. Many people used the RS mic, the AT mic, and other similar style mics with great success and talk about how natural the bass sounds by placing the mic inside the f hole, and some have even fully submerged the mic inside the body. My ATR3350 is coming tomorrow and my hope is that it will replace the Model B but if not, my idea is to blend it with the pickup, using the HPF to allow the Model B to handle the low end while using the mic to fill out the the mids and highs. This AT mic is $35 and has a built in power supply so it doesn't require phantom power, allowing it to plug directly into the amp, provided the impedance is high enough.
The takeaway I suppose is that the Model B is cheap, works, can sound good with the right EQ, but is still a simple piezo pickup which has inherent limitations to sound reproduction.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I have sold off two pickups recently which were left on basses I sold and am down to only one, a Realist Lifeline. That pickup is now on another bass and needing one for my Kay, I took a chance on the KNA DB-1. First impressions are acceptable but not great. Installing it on the G side per the instructions it has a fairly neutral tone but lacks the low end of the Lifeline. After switching it the the E side it may be a bit better but not much. I’ll experiment with a tighter fit but it seems secure. I know from dealing with Underwoods that there is a point at which the element can get squeezed too much and damaged.
The Lifeline has become my favorite pickup because it captures a very full tone with a deep, punchy low end and warmth with little to no piezo quack.
Still, at less than half the price I think this DB-1 is a good option and I would recommend it.
I prefer a simple cable tie to secure the jack.
The Lifeline has become my favorite pickup because it captures a very full tone with a deep, punchy low end and warmth with little to no piezo quack.
Still, at less than half the price I think this DB-1 is a good option and I would recommend it.
I prefer a simple cable tie to secure the jack.
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Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
That's kind of the inherent problem with bridge wing pickups in general isn't it Greg. The Underwood had to be fit correctly by a luthier on my bass, so did the Revolution Solo, and the Planet Wing that someone put a piece of black electrical tape on one side to fit it on my Kolstine Busetto Travle bass.
The wing slots on bass bridges really vary from one type of bridge to another.
