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KSD...Lesson Learned, pt. II

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#121
I think this thread is pretty worthless considering its about a WRENCH!

While I don't appreciate the customer service you guys are receiving, I think everybody made their point! Maybe these are basses worth staying away from. I personally would not shop from Brooklyn Gear. I would definitely buy a Smith, but not a 12-13lb Fender Copy called KSD.

Again, if you have a problem, pay for shipping at $5 worth or parts from stew mac and have the bas and the parts shipped to my house. I will fix your fender copy so that it will be adjustable with fender wrenches. I'll do this for a minimal charge of $50 per bass.
 
#122
joelb79 said:
I think this thread is pretty worthless considering its about a WRENCH!

While I don't appreciate the customer service you guys are receiving, I think everybody made their point! Maybe these are basses worth staying away from. I personally would not shop from Brooklyn Gear. I would definitely buy a Smith, but not a 12-13lb Fender Copy called KSD.

Again, if you have a problem, pay for shipping at $5 worth or parts from stew mac and have the bas and the parts shipped to my house. I will fix your fender copy so that it will be adjustable with fender wrenches. I'll do this for a minimal charge of $50 per bass.
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Wow, $50 per bass? That's WAY more than I made...lol
 
#124
Here's a better analogy for this business relationship. Mike Tobias has done design work for other companies for example the Genesis by Modulus and the Groove Shoppe basses. He doesn’t have anything to do with building, marketing, distributing, or selling these basses. If someone had a problem with parts, I’m sure Mike would point them in the right direction but he is not at all responsible for the customer service aspect of those basses – he just designed them. Those companies use his name in marketing the basses, but he just designed them. I think the Genesis basses even have Mike’s name on the headstock.

KSD is basically the same situation.
 
#126
vision said:
Here's a better analogy for this business relationship. Mike Tobias has done design work for other companies for example the Genesis by Modulus and the Groove Shoppe basses. He doesn’t have anything to do with building, marketing, distributing, or selling these basses. If someone had a problem with parts, I’m sure Mike would point them in the right direction but he is not at all responsible for the customer service aspect of those basses – he just designed them. Those companies use his name in marketing the basses, but he just designed them. I think the Genesis basses even have Mike’s name on the headstock.

KSD is basically the same situation.
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Jason, Actually it's not. There are two huge differences. Modulus stands behind their products, so Michael Tobias lent his name to a company that is and has remained repuatable. Second his name is not on the headstock. And it is clear from their website and lituature that you are purchasing a Modulus base.

http://www.modulusguitars.com/v2/products/genesisbass/index.html

On the KSD headstocks, we not only have Ken's name, but the name Brooklyn Gear doesn't even appear on the instrument. Plus Brooklyn gear has never had a reputation for great service or integrity. Heck even Bass Player introduced the instruments from the NAMM show as "new from Ken Smith Basses" as if these were just another import line like the Burners. If the folks at Bass Player didn't know the difference then I think it would be safe to assume that their was intent to mis-lead consummers on the part of Brooklyn gear, and Ken appearently is just fine with that. On www.kensmithbasses.com we learn that Ken and his crew are personally doing QC on the line.

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Invalid Link Removed

Obviously, as Ken has stated that is not the case. So Ken seems to be perfectly fine with deceptive or misleading advertising practices on his own web site?
 
#128
burk48237 said:
Jason, Actually it's not. There are two huge differences. Modulus stands behind their products, so Michael Tobias lent his name to a company that is and has remained repuatable. Second his name is not on the headstock. And it is clear from their website and lituature that you are purchasing a Modulus base.

http://www.modulusguitars.com/v2/products/genesisbass/index.html

On the KSD headstocks, we not only have Ken's name, but the name Brooklyn Gear doesn't even appear on the instrument. Plus Brooklyn gear has never had a reputation for great service or integrity. Heck even Bass Player introduced the instruments from the NAMM show as "new from Ken Smith Basses" as if these were just another import line like the Burners. If the folks at Bass Player didn't know the difference then I think it would be safe to assume that their was intent to mis-lead consummers on the part of Brooklyn gear, and Ken appearently is just fine with that. On www.kensmithbasses.com we learn that Ken and his crew are personally doing QC on the line.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Invalid Link Removed

Obviously, as Ken has stated that is not the case. So Ken seems to be perfectly fine with deceptive or misleading advertising practices on his own web site?
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Your second link clearly states "Ken and crew tested and adjusted a portion of the first few production runs of the KSD's". I believe the line was introduced in 2003 and would have to assume that "the first few production runs" were done at that time. Your failure to include that information in your accusation might be considered "deceptive and misleading". The only other possibility I can think of is that both you and the guy who posted a similar pic from earlier did not bother to read the captions. Given what information is available and what Ken smith has said in this thread and apparently a few others, I think that the people who are having trouble differentiating between the two lines are ignoring what's available and choosing to have a problem. If I had that much of a hang up on a bass, I just would not put any effort into either buying it or bitching about it.
 
#129
bovinehost said:
You're not all warm and snuggly. You're not Captain Kangaroo. Good for you, I say. I'm too old for Captain Kangaroo.
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You know who I miss? Mister Green Jeans! Remember how Mister Green Jeans used to pick up a bass fiddle and play it like a banjo? That was awesome! I wonder if Ken Smith ever does that.

You know what else I like? Ping pong balls!
 
#130
I understand Ken's point in all of this. However, The problem people have is that His name is on the bass. If you put your name on a product you can expect to be associated with it. As far as BMW and EB Bongo goes I never would have known BMW is associated with EB Bongo because EB is the ONLY name on the bass. The same with Mike Tobias and Modulus basses. Modulus is the ONLY name on the bass. ken I'm sure this way to much hassel than it's worth so as soon as your contract with Brooklyn Gear is up you might want to bail out and Let "Brooklyn Gear " be the ONLY name on the bass. ;)
 
#131
You got Ken Smith Design, which Ken doesn't build or support. Then you got MTD, which stands for Michael Tobias Design, and is built and supported by Mr. Tobias. It's no wonder the consumer is confused.

Let us all hope that Roger doesn't introduce a "Sadowsky Design" line. :eek:
 
#132
Bass Viking said:
You got Ken Smith Design, which Ken doesn't build or support. Then you got MTD, which stands for Michael Tobias Design, and is built and supported by Mr. Tobias. It's no wonder the consumer is confused.

Let us all hope that Roger doesn't introduce a "Sadowsky Design" line. :eek:
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I am sure Roger is reading this thread and taking notes!
 
#133
ok i'm confused......I thouht the smith shop, setup and QC'd the KSD basses, and rejected any lemons...is this incorrect????? I remember looking at a pic of this...personally i have played 2 KSD basses and thought they were well built...I didn't care for the electronics though...I am going to go back and buy the KSD j retro...


Bill

can that idea it's sold!!
 
#134
Dr. Cheese said:
I think it is time to give Ken Smith a break. He has made it very clear that he is not the person to contact about KSD. Dogging him on the net will not change that. If Tobias, or someone else reacts differently, that's their decision.
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i have to agree, this is acomplishing nothing, you can only take what a person will give you, and Ken has stated what he is willing to do and what he wont do, that is all, so take what you can get, sorry but it is just the way it is, you cant force somebody's hand, he has stated his terms, that is a situation where no one wins, so the best thing to do is contact the company he stated is responsible for this, i am not taking sides, i just feel we need clarity and truth, cause this negativity sucks!!!!!!! and to clarify its not wrong to state your issues with a product, but this has turned into a pissing contest, and that wont get the ksd basses fixed any faster.
 
#135
T-MOST said:
Not for nothing but... You can't buy an Allen Wrench yourself? According to Adams last post it's a 4mm Allen that can be found at any hardware store (assuming this is true). It won't be a T style but it will still work. In your defense a customer service oriented company would have sent you one even if "they" had to get it from a hardware store. Since that hasn't happened I would buy it myself and move on.
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Buying a 4mm allen is easy but IIRC BG and KS were saying in an earlier thread that it was an odd size and the excuse was being offered that those people made it an odd size and they couldn't find out what size it was.
 
#137
Ken,
You have a great number of fans.
You are considered a giant in the industry.
Your basses sell well.
Why did you loan your name to an inferior product?
Was there an aspect of nieveity on your part?
Obviously the masses are confused.
You seem to try to seperate yourself from KSD, yet your name is on the headstock.
p.s. call me at 519-472-4646.
my email is [email protected]

Can you publish your home phone?
 
#138
Son of Sanford said:
:hmm: Everyone has brass balls on the internet.

Maybe I have a better understanding of business/legal issues than the average user, but the nature of Ken Smith's relationship with the KSD line is no mystery to me. It is not even confusing. I also fail to see what some of the people piling on are getting out of this unless it is really just an internet ego thing.

Bob, I imagine the picture is supposed to visualy contradict what Ken Smith has said with regard to his realtionship. Thankfully I can read and understand what he posted in this thread including the part about how he used to stock the KSD line in his shop. He no longer does, or did you mis that in your attempt to clown a bass maker on the internet? I don't post here that often and maybe I should stop again now, but your string of posts says more about you than your subject. Some people here seem as though they are genuinely trying to see the issue from all angles. You really look like you are just trying to pick a fight. Why?
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Your post is worthless as you have not revealed your full true name :)

But thank your for your add hominems.
 
#139
john turner said:
all this over an allen wrench? unbelievable.
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Quite agree. This is all about an allen wrench and what happens when a customer has a problem. Because the problem has not been solved, then there is nothing else to do but to bring it to the attention of the masses (that's us!!), say how terrible the distributors are and how terrible Ken Smith is.

T-MOST said:
+1 I forgot he stripped the nut. Remember folks when it comes to wrenches if it doesn't fit, let it sit! ;)
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I have a DVD by Dan Erlewine who encounters this exact problem on an "offshore" bass. He found that one wrench was too big, the other too small.

Did he get on the 'phone and then type on a forum saying it was an absolute disgrace that this happened, then bring in the distributor and then try to give the deisgner a bad name...

...of course not. He ground down a 5mm until it fitted perfectly, then adjusted the truss rod. Problem solved....
 
#140
davec said:
Jack I knew I could count on you :D

my point was if there was a issue with the Bongo ( not that there is EB makes a fine bass) people would go back to BMW right I mean after all they Designed it :rollno:
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BMW didn't design the Bongo. Getting that right could help your argument. Your error does however show how common these mistakes can be :)
 
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