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KSD...Lesson Learned, pt. II

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#81
KSB - Ken Smith said:
The Head has KSD (which is ok as planned) not KenSmithBasses. It was the KSB reference on the BG Website that I have asked to have removed to be KSD, not KSB so there might be less confusion. It is obvious that no matter what, someone will remain confused about something.
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it's true, that someone will always be confused about KSD basses..

by not taking an active stance on protecting your name/brand, you have allowed it to be misused and have allowed the confusion to embed itself..

you've allowed your name/brand to be exploited by another company, if you didn't receive compensation..

again, you have to make it clear that you are in no way associated with KSD, or this will just continue..

i'm glad that i have this association between KSD and KSB clear now..
 
#82
throbgod13 said:
it's true, that someone will always be confused about KSD basses..

by not taking an active stance on protecting your name/brand, you have allowed it to be misused and have allowed the confusion to embed itself..

you've allowed your name/brand to be exploited by another company, if you didn't receive compensation..

again, you have to make it clear that you are in no way associated with KSD, or this will just continue..

i'm glad that i have this association between KSD and KSB clear now..
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It is my understanding, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. That Ken Smith did receive compensation and may still be receiving compensation. To complain about misunderstandings and misrepresentations by Brooklyn Gear while Ken is continuing to cash their checks appears a bit disingenuous to me. While again their is no doubt that you are a superb craftsman and instrument designer and you have made great contributions to the development of the instrument, nothing I have read here indicates that you value your name or customer satisfaction. Maybe my impressions are wrong, but you haven't indicated here that you refused their compensation or that you have challenged them legally. I can only call them as I see them.
 
#83
burk48237 said:
It is my understanding, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. That Ken Smith did receive compensation and my still be receiving compensation. To complain about misunderstandings and misrepresentations by Brooklyn Gear while Ken is continuing to cash their checks appears a bit disingenuous to me. While again their is no doubt that you are a superb craftsman and instrument designer and you have made great contributions to the development of the instrument, nothing I have read hear indicates that you value your name or customer satisfaction. Maybe my impressions are wrong, but you haven't indicated here that you refused their compensation or that you have challenged them legally. I can only call them as I see them.
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You can't send mixed signals and try to play both ends of it. For example this post stickied on Ken's private forum.

http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=494
I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum. My name is Adam Levy and I am the owner of Brooklyn Gear. Brooklyn Gear is the distributor and manufacturer of the KSD Bass line.

Ken Smith has been gracious enough to design this great bass line. It is my responsibility to manufacture and distribute and support the line up to Ken Smith standards.
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If I didn't know all the behind the scenes secrets it would appear that KS is proudly associating himself with these basses. Maybe it's just not so obvious to everyone that Ken Smith Basses is not connected with Ken Smith Design basses. I know Ken thinks using Ken Smith style basses to sell basses is wrong and will get him to threaten lawsuits when he's not getting paid for his name.

Ken you have to at least understand why this appears inconsistent.
 
#84
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:rollno:

Quality control testing being performed here in the Smith shop for selected samples of the KSDs



Recreating the magic from the 60's and 70's Vintage Basses, Ken Smith is pleased to introduce the KSD Proto-J series. Drawing on his many years of experience as a studio professional in New York City and as a world class Luthier, Ken Smith designed the Proto-J series to meet the demands of Professional Bassists around the world. Ken incorporated many of the features found on his U.S. Basses into a design that is familiar and recognizable to many Bassists.
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Freddie Washington, a long time Ken Smith player enjoyed playing the KSD for the first time at the Brooklyn Gear / Ken Smith NAMM booth in Anaheim 2003. Freddie said, “At this point in my life I don’t need any new basses but these (KSD’s) I like”. After the NAMM Show, Freddie called and spoke to Ken personally and expressed his interest in the 70's 5-string model that he played while performing with Marcus Miller and Richard Bona in a three way Bass Jam sponsored by EBS, Brooklyn Gear, and Ken Smith Basses.

Freddie has been synonymous with Ken Smith Basses for many years and has extended this to the new family of Ken Smith Designed Series Basses, “KSD” Proto-J.
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#86
Ken Smith Basses (KSB) is NOT Brooklyn Gear (BG). BG makes and sells Ken Smith Design (KSD), a Bass with some designs from Ken Smith(KS)/KSB.

If you have a problem with KSD, call BG, not KSB. If you have a problem with KSB, call KSB, not BG.

KSB does not ship, wholesale, market, distribute or make any parts for KSD. KSB cannot send you spare parts for any reason because the KSD is BG product and not a KSB product. We don't have the parts!

Are you guys getting this yet?

Because KSB gets compensated in some small way (not getting rich here guys/gals) for the KS/KSB input and guidance in the basic product of KSD and consults BG as needed or requested, KSB supports KSD in public because it may be beneficial and profitable as a business venture that embarked a few years ago no matter how small or rewarding it is.

KSB is NOT KSD. KSD is not responsible for actions or omissions by BG, the producer of KSD.

KS/KSB regularly responds to emails, phone calls and on-line forum queries about KSD and guides them over to BG who is responsible for the product which is NOT a KSB product but contains design and input from KS/KSB.

I, KS/KSB will continue to support BG/KSD until for whatever reason I/WE no longer do.

Is this clear enough or do I still have to do this 3x a day like feeding time?

I think it was easier to train my Dog than some Bass players I have had to tell this to over and over again about the difference between the BG/KSD import company and the KSB/Handmade Bass company in Pa.
 
#87
Seriously, do you think that you're not playing both sides here? You want the name association, you don't want the burden of responsibility. It's so sad that you have to repeat yourself, explaining how you are not affiliated with these basses that bear your name and put money in your pocket. :rolleyes:
 
#88
So you're a partner, promoter, consultant and do some support for them along with promoting them with your artists and you designed the line of basses that you continue to work on and they pay you. But you're not connected with them. Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me :)

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When you host this page

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There's no way you can pretend you're not involved, well you can pretend, but it's not real.
 
#89
bongomania said:
Seriously, do you think that you're not playing both sides here? You want the name association, you don't want the burden of responsibility. It's so sad that you have to repeat yourself, explaining how you are not affiliated with these basses that bear your name and put money in your pocket. :rolleyes:
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Call Les Paul. Ask him. Maybe you can learn from someone other then me what a License agreement is.

It seems that because I come here and talk to you guys you resent the fact that I might be making money at it.

My biggest mistake may have been responding here and trying to clear up confusion. I am DONE with this Topic. BYE.
 
#92
You know, Ken, for whatever it's worth, I've understood the deal from the beginning, and I'm pretty sure I'm not blessed with any special insight or ability.

Aside from what I or anyone else thinks about your association with BG, I do admire you for hanging it out here on Talkbass and telling it like you see it. Some won't like your no-BS approach and others will feel some sense of entitlement simply because you do post here. Some will want a more corporate-speak approach and not appreciate that they might gain a little insight, if only they'd get over themselves.

You're not all warm and snuggly. You're not Captain Kangaroo. Good for you, I say. I'm too old for Captain Kangaroo.

That doesn't mean everyone is.

Anyway, I have no dog in this hunt, and I might disagree here and there with some things you say, but so what? We don't have to be best buddies and go fishing for me to recognize that you make some damned fine basses.

Cheers, sir.

Jack
 
#93
FWIW, I just played my fretless KSD 60s j. It's a fantastic bass. It sings in both active and passive. It's absolutely perfect for rounds because of the ebonol fret board.

I guess as long as I don't strip the truss rod, I shouldn't have any problems. It's definitely a quality product, that's for sure.
 
#95
That blows about the truss rod wrench. I lose them all the time, so i've started to buy the ones i need for my Fenders 3-4 at a time. Luckily-my Ray5 has a wheel adjustment so i just shove whatever wrench will fit in there and adjust it. The problem with the wrenches sounds like it can be solved immediately by going to your hardware store and buying one.

Ken-that NAMM story is awesome. That makes me respect the guys that play KSB that much more knowing that they actually pay for their own instruments.
 
#97
ken! Take youre responsability!
I was happy with my 705, but with such a 'bassbuilder', youre do not excist anymore,
First it seems that youre the creator, but when people report problems, youre out!!
I hope that you have no children
when somebody report you problems that youre children have made, you put youre children out!?
 
#98
KSB - Ken Smith said:
It seems that because I come here and talk to you guys you resent the fact that I might be making money at it.
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If I had to guess, Ken, I would guess that some guys resent the fact that you make money on it and your name is on it, yet you constantly defer any responsibility for it.

Nobody is spiteful that you make money, it's that you make money one something that you effectively disown. I figured that was apparent, but there you have it.
 
#99
Geez, you guys are rough! Still don't get it, huh? Sounds like you are forcing him to support a product he doesn't build. I tell you one thing though, he's got a lot of patience putting up with all the lambasting here! So if you all have a problem with your Tobias bass, you're gonna call up Mike Tobias and bitch about it?

I just love all the 'perfect' folks at this site!
 
#100
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Call Les Paul. Ask him. Maybe you can learn from someone other then me what a License agreement is.

It seems that because I come here and talk to you guys you resent the fact that I might be making money at it.

My biggest mistake may have been responding here and trying to clear up confusion. I am DONE with this Topic. BYE.
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Your argument about the Gibson Les Paul doesnt really stand unless these bass's are called Brooklyn Gear Ken Smith...Are they called that or are they called Ken Smith Designs?
 
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